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标题: 25 日菜哥哥与管卫东的2个争执 [打印本页]

作者: LTZgodwin    时间: 2004-3-11 01:18
标题: 25 日菜哥哥与GWD的2个争执

25 日菜哥哥与GWD的2个争执,求救各位大侠:fficeffice" />



因我很菜,GWD又很牛,但我的确坚信我是对的,所请各位牛牛见到本贴给个答复,菜哥哥跪谢各位。



The original sentence: on earth, among the surest indications are believed to be the rate of tree growth, as seen in the ring visible in the cross sections of their trunks.



Two of the alternative answers:



    



1-a: On earth, among the surest indications of sunspot cycles are, it is believed, the rate of tree growth, as seen in the rings visible in the cross sections of their trunks.



    



1-b: On earth, the rate at which trees grow is believed to be among the surest indications of sunspot cycles, as seen in the rings visible in the cross sections of their trunks.



    



争论焦点:



The first disagreement between guan and I is whether the alternative choice A is a complete sentence. I think the original statement is not a sentence, but the choice A is. It is not only complete sentence but also 倒装。Guan, however, do not agree with me. He claims the A is not a sentence for it lacks the subject. What makes this shit so funny is other students also agree to his point. I think guan is terribly wrong.     If this is not the case, how to explain the two sentences following I extracted from the GRE and LAST respectively?             



Gre No 3-3 SECTION A19题题干.             Among the natural defenses of the skin against pathogenic organisms are all of the following EXCEPT the



LSAT06 SECTION I阅读


Among the factors that constrain the competitiveness of integrated producers are excessive labor, energy, and capital costs, as well as manufacturing inflexibility.



    



The choice A is not correct answer since the subject does not agree with the predicate “are”. The correct answer given by the goddamned ETS is alternative choice B. I suppose, however, if the predicate in the choice A, that is, the “are” is replaced by the “is”, the better answer would be A rather than B, for it does not change the intended meaning of the author who wants to emphasize the “among”. Another debate arises. Guan argues, the 倒装 exists only when such negative words as “none”, “never” is put the beginning of the sentence. Sucks! Am is really wrong? 管认为没有否定词提前不能倒装。 这家伙说不读懂文章比答案也能比对。fuck. 该是我死吗?



    



第二争论:



    



After 40 years research and development, a new type of jet engine, is being tested that could eventually propel aircraft wherever in the world within 2 hours or help boost cargo …



    



After 40 year r and d, a new type of jet engine is being tested, and it could eventually have the capability to propel aircraft whenever in the world with 2 hours or help boost cargo…



    红字部分没记权,别受干扰。关键是管认为2比1号,认为1种的that 引导的是目的壮语从句而不是宾语从句,他认为只能先开发后试验最后eventually 有能力,我正是被塔高的糊涂死了。



    









作者: chenholan    时间: 2004-3-11 01:28
ofcourse Mr. Guan right
作者: LTZgodwin    时间: 2004-3-11 01:35
wei shen me?


作者: liy_lilan    时间: 2004-3-11 05:39
以下是引用LTZgodwin在2004-3-11 1:18:00的发言:



第二争论:fficeffice" />



    



After 40 years research and development, a new type of jet engine, is being tested that could eventually propel aircraft wherever in the world within 2 hours or help boost cargo …



    



After 40 year r and d, a new type of jet engine is being tested, and it could eventually have the capability to propel aircraft whenever in the world with 2 hours or help boost cargo…



    红字部分没记权,别受干扰。关键是管认为2比1号,认为1种的that 引导的是目的壮语从句而不是宾语从句,他认为只能先开发后试验最后eventually 有能力,我正是被塔高的糊涂死了。



    





我认为第二句比第一句好,因为句一中主谓之间有逗号隔开,这是ETS不允许的。并且that的作用不明,如果是定语从句没有就近修饰的名词,如果是宾语从句则从句中缺少主语。
作者: liy_lilan    时间: 2004-3-11 05:52
以下是引用LTZgodwin在2004-3-11 1:18:00的发言:


The original sentence: on earth, among the surest indications are believed to be the rate of tree growth, as seen in the ring visible in the cross sections of their trunks.fficeffice" />



Two of the alternative answers:



    



1-a: On earth, among the surest indications of sunspot cycles are, it is believed, the rate of tree growth, as seen in the rings visible in the cross sections of their trunks.



    



1-b: On earth, the rate at which trees grow is believed to be among the surest indications of sunspot cycles, as seen in the rings visible in the cross sections of their trunks.



    



争论焦点:



The first disagreement between guan and I is whether the alternative choice A is a complete sentence. I think the original statement is not a sentence, but the choice A is. It is not only complete sentence but also 倒装。Guan, however, do not agree with me. He claims the A is not a sentence for it lacks the subject. What makes this shit so funny is other students also agree to his point. I think guan is terribly wrong.     If this is not the case, how to explain the two sentences following I extracted from the GRE and LAST respectively?             



Gre No 3-3 SECTION A19题题干.             Among the natural defenses of the skin against pathogenic organisms are all of the following EXCEPT the



LSAT06 SECTION I阅读


Among the factors that constrain the competitiveness of integrated producers are excessive labor, energy, and capital costs, as well as manufacturing inflexibility.



    



The choice A is not correct answer since the subject does not agree with the predicate “are”. The correct answer given by the goddamned ETS is alternative choice B. I suppose, however, if the predicate in the choice A, that is, the “are” is replaced by the “is”, the better answer would be A rather than B, for it does not change the intended meaning of the author who wants to emphasize the “among”. Another debate arises. Guan argues, the 倒装 exists only when such negative words as “none”, “never” is put the beginning of the sentence. Sucks! Am is really wrong? 管认为没有否定词提前不能倒装。 这家伙说不读懂文章比答案也能比对。fuck. 该是我死吗?

我同意句一是倒装,只是主谓不一致,而且根据ETS的看法,插入语的应用使得句子结构凌乱,不合语言习惯(据说是英国人的习惯)。不过我也同意GWD的看法,一般是有否定词提前的话用倒装,但不绝对。如果说话人要强调什么,自然也可用倒装了。
作者: isabellu    时间: 2004-3-11 09:37
我觉得第一题的B选项正确的另一个原因是:as seen in the rings visible in the cross sections of their trunks.中省略,还原后是“as it is seen.......”这里的it应该指代the rate at which trees grow 不知这样分析对不对~~
作者: isabellu    时间: 2004-3-11 09:48
哦,对了,这个贴如果发到语法区或许回应会更多一些~
作者: LTZgodwin    时间: 2004-3-11 09:49

实在是很抱歉,第二个争论有出入错误,哪个逗号没有。多亏一牛朋友指出,不然误导大家了。该寺,该死。


    


After 40 years research and development, a new type of jet engine is being tested that could eventually propel aircraft wherever in the world within 2 hours or help boost cargo … fficeffice" />


    


After 40 year r and d, a new type of jet engine is being tested, and it could eventually have the capability to propel aircraft whenever in the world with 2 hours or help boost cargo…


    


作者: LTZgodwin    时间: 2004-3-11 10:13
该寺,该死,我已把此贴重新编辑了,原铁有错,我想删除但不会,所以诱发了一新的,请大家到哪儿去讨论。蔡哥哥谢各位。此外,又一逻辑题我拍麻烦也贴到这儿,因为更多的是怎样理解正确答案的意思。

作者: snow_mountain    时间: 2004-3-11 21:44
标题: 25 日菜哥哥与GWD的2个争执
第一个我认为管的对。因为主谓不一致。而且among 的倒装很awkward.


第二个我觉得你的选择好一点。could have the capability to do sth 好像的确是redundant. 而且LZM上面说 have a capability of doing sth 才是固定用法。(P5)不过这点不足为信。因为Longman上面就有to do 的用法,反而没有of doing 的用法。我认为that 从句是定语从句。先行词是a new type of jet engine


After 40 years research and development, a new type of jet engine that could eventually propel aircraft wherever in the world within 2 hours or help boost cargo is being tested    


因为主语太长,所以倒装放在后面。杨鹏阅读难句上面好像有这种句子。但是就有一个问题,这种在阅读中能够接受的句子,在语法中能算对吗?


个人意思,你干吗不把你的疑问向管提出来呢?


作者: snow_mountain    时间: 2004-3-11 21:51

刚才在杨鹏里面找到这个句子。


    


第三类:倒装:由于应该放在句首的成分太长,因此倒装到句末。也是一种人为现象。例:That    sex    ratio    will    be    favored    which    maximizes    the    number    of    descendants    an    individual    will    have    and    hence    the    number    of    gene    copies    transmitted.     fficeffice" />


读法:需要经过训练后才能按正常语序读。    


正常语序:


That    sex    ratio    which    maximizes    the    number    of    descendants    that    an    individual    will    have    and    hence    the    sex    ratio    which    maximize    the    number    of    gene    copies    transmitted    will    be    favered


    


不过杨也说是人为现象。反正在OG里面是没看到这种句子。困惑中。


    


作者: yanjuji    时间: 2004-3-11 23:15
本人去年7月份考的GMAT,740/ 50/39,自认为在语法方面有些心得,斗胆说一下对你问题的想法,仅供参考。



首先我要说明自己的观点,GMAT语法的高境界不是语法现象,而是句意的贴切--这也算是我练GMAT的个人心得。好啦,言归正传:


1、我认为管对,因为第一句有一个致命弱点,如果说是倒装,则主谓不同。另外,THE RATE AT WHICH的用法更好。


2、还是管对。我认为此句不能仅以语法考虑(THAT倒装应该也是可以)。关键在于这两句话的意思不同。第一句THAT从句代表主语的属性,整个话的意思是“一个可以。。。的飞机发动机被检测。而第二句的意思是说一个发动机被检测,并最终证明了它能。。。。所以从句意看肯定是第二句更好。


作者: yanjuji    时间: 2004-3-11 23:17
关于逻辑问题


应该还是管对。因为短信息里面说不明白,就不详细说我的思路了。你最好在请教一下管。





顺便说一下,我原来一向对管的作法不太感冒,认为虚有其表,但从这三道题看来,还是有水平的。只是觉得虽然他的选择是对的,但解释很牵强。所以,如果用我的坏心思想他,有可能是另有高手作出答案(但并没有给出完整解释),而管则根据答案牵强附会?(哈哈,只是胡猜,但确实有这种人存在,包括新东方)


作者: LTZgodwin    时间: 2004-3-12 01:39

1213 楼的2位仁兄,你们一说我倒悟了。我之所以不向他本人提出,是觉得他太不谦虚。答案或许是他对,但他的解释我难以接受。谢各位!fficeffice" />


作者: tuhanxiao    时间: 2005-3-23 00:12

斑竹

那有管为东的题目哦

谢谢哦






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