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标题: [讨论]OG11上一些小小的知识点 囧囧的我提点儿囧囧的问题 [打印本页]

作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-18 20:26
标题: [讨论]OG11上一些小小的知识点 囧囧的我提点儿囧囧的问题

OG解释里边常常会有这样的字眼儿【XX(a phrase)is not a correct idiom】或者【xx(a phrase) is awkward and wordy 】

但是以前这些短语明明是对的啊 字典儿里也有啊 意思也符合题意...但是由于GMAT中有一些特殊规定和“黄金规则”...所以我就不明白了 到底这些短语是在那道题的情景中not correct ,还是在整个GMAT规则里就不对。OG解释也不说明白~~如果说【XX(a phrase)is not a correct idiom in this sentence】哎 那就好懂了嘛~~

【【以上都是废话 下面才是问题哈 嘿嘿】】

e.g.

OG11-25【 on account of is awkward and wordy】可以这样理解吗?“在gmat中 表原因不用on account of”

e.g.

so...as to和 so as to一般情况下都是错的吧?貌似每次出现这两个短语,OG解释里都是说not the correct idiom或者ambiguous

囧囧的我提出了囧囧的问题...NN们不要笑我哦~~~嘿嘿


作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-18 23:39
根据LZM的说法,so...as to用在系表结构中,且结果状语的主语和主语的主语一致
而表示比较的时候,so...as...是用于否定句中的,as。。。as是用于肯定句中的

作者: syxphoebe    时间: 2009-4-18 23:52

非NN。同为备考菜鸟。个人浅见:

gmat语法要求简洁。表原因是on account of 显然不如because来的简洁。既然一个词语能解释清楚地为什么要用三个单词呢?

至于so as to。同意楼上Mm的看法。so as to 只用于简单的主席表结构中。要求主谓一致。且前后时态一致。不过有种说法是so +adj+as to 有可能是对的。需要进一步验证的说。在目前做过的题中 。似乎gmat更倾向于用so that表达。因为so that的要求貌似不是很严格的说。

记得有位nn说。某种程度上语法似乎更是在考逻辑。觉得挺正确的。呵呵。


作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 14:29
谢谢哟~~一下子就把俺点醒了~~~
作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 14:32
以下是引用syxphoebe在2009-4-18 23:52:00的发言:

非NN。同为备考菜鸟。个人浅见:

gmat语法要求简洁。表原因是on account of 显然不如because来的简洁。既然一个词语能解释清楚地为什么要用三个单词呢?

至于so as to。同意楼上Mm的看法。so as to 只用于简单的主席表结构中。要求主谓一致。且前后时态一致。不过有种说法是so +adj+as to 有可能是对的。需要进一步验证的说。在目前做过的题中 。似乎gmat更倾向于用so that表达。因为so that的要求貌似不是很严格的说。

记得有位nn说。某种程度上语法似乎更是在考逻辑。觉得挺正确的。呵呵。

谢谢哟~~~懂嘞懂嘞~!!

其实 GMAT中并没有那么多所谓的“黄金规则”对吧?很多东西都不是绝对的对错 而是相较之下好与不好 是吧?^^ 反正抓住总原则“遵循原文 简洁清晰”就行了吧...


作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 14:36
OG上也有because优于on account of的用法,见OG11th 25题

个人觉得逻辑和简洁是最重要的

作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 14:41
以下是引用syxphoebe在2009-4-18 23:52:00的发言:

非NN。同为备考菜鸟。个人浅见:

gmat语法要求简洁。表原因是on account of 显然不如because来的简洁。既然一个词语能解释清楚地为什么要用三个单词呢?

至于so as to。同意楼上Mm的看法。so as to 只用于简单的主席表结构中。要求主谓一致。且前后时态一致。不过有种说法是so +adj+as to 有可能是对的。需要进一步验证的说。在目前做过的题中 。似乎gmat更倾向于用so that表达。因为so that的要求貌似不是很严格的说。

记得有位nn说。某种程度上语法似乎更是在考逻辑。觉得挺正确的。呵呵。

呵呵 如果方便的话 可以举一个so...as to为正确选项的例子吗?

因为上XDF时 老师说“so as to 绝对错误!但是so...as to却不一定”  我想老师说这话肯定是有依据的吧 肯定是因为有某道真题的正确选项里有so...as to  但是 我至今没见so...as to正确过...

呵呵 如果不方便就算啦~~已经很感谢你啦~~~


作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 14:51

    

88.   The Emperor Augustus, it appears,
commissioned an idealized sculpture portrait, the features of which are so
unrealistic as to constitute
what one scholar calls an “artificial face.”

    


OG 上的

不知道你说的so...as to是不是指这种用法,这里不是表示比较,是表示太xxx以至于xxx



作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 15:05
以下是引用xxxyyyzzz1在2009-4-19 14:51:00的发言:

 

88.   The Emperor Augustus, it appears,
commissioned an idealized sculpture portrait, the features of which are so
unrealistic as to constitute
what one scholar calls an “artificial face.”

 


OG 上的

不知道你说的so...as to是不是指这种用法,这里不是表示比较,是表示太xxx以至于xxx


哦 这是OG10里的吗?我只看了OG11呢~~谢谢咯~~

弱弱地问一句~~it appears中的it指代的是什么啊?^^ 


作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 15:06

88. The Emperor Augustus, it appears, commissioned an idealized sculpture portrait, the features of which are so unrealistic as to constitute what one scholar calls an "artificial face."

(A)  so unrealistic as to constitute

(B)  so unrealistic they constituted

(C)  so unrealistic that they have constituted

(D)  unrealistic enough so that they constitute

(E)  unrealistic enough so as to constitute

楼上的乱码了,应该是这道题吧。

尽管题目里面,so as to 好像都是错误的,但解释里面却用了,比如:

196. It is possible that Native Americans originally have migrated to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that once existed between Siberia and Alaska.

(A)  have migrated to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that once existed

(B)  were migrating to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that existed once

(C)  migrated over a bridge of land to the Western Hemisphere that once existed

(D)  migrated to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that once existed

(E)  were migrating to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land existing once

Choice D, the best answer, correctly uses the past-tense verb forms migrated and existed to refer to actions completed in' the past. Choices A, B, and E present incorrect verb forms for expressing simple past action, and existing once in E is imprecise. Although choice C manages the correct tense, it misplaces the sentence elements so as to suggest that the Western Hemisphere once existed between Siberia and Alaska.


[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-19 15:06:15编辑过]

作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 15:12
是啊
word复制过来就乱码了
就是你说的那道
大全里都有

作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 15:40

67. Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newbom children.

(A)  provide workers with unpaid leave so as to

(B)  to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to

(C)  provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they

(D)  to provide workers with unpaid leave so that
    they can

(E)  provide workers with unpaid leave and

Choices A, C, and E are ungrammatical because, in this context, requiring ... employers must be followed by an infinitive. These options display additional faults: in A, so as to fails to specify that the workers receiving the leave will be the people caring for the infants and children;
   in order that they, as used in C, is imprecise and unidiomatic; and E says that the bill being debated would require the employers themselves to care for the children. Choice B offers the correct infinitive, to provide, but contains the faulty so as to. Choice D is best.

比如这道题,之所以“so as to”被否定,解释里面说得很明确,后面动作的逻辑主语存在歧义;

而我前面贴得196解释里面用到so as to,后面动作的逻辑主语只能是it,没有歧义。

再比如:

171. In 1527 King Henry VIII sought to have his marriage to Queen Catherine annulled so as to marry Anne Boleyn.

(A)  so as to marry

(B)  and so could be married to

(C)  to be married to

(D)  so that he could marry

(E)  in order that he would marry

The sentence calls for an adverbial clause of purpose to explain why Henry sought the annulment. D, the best choice, does this clearly and correctly. It is introduced by an appropriate conjunction, so that, and contains a logically appropriate verb form, could marry. Awkward and imprecise, A does not specify who is to marry Anne. B substitutes an illogical coordinate predicate for the needed purpose clause; because the annulment had not yet been granted. Henry could not remarry. C lacks an appropriate conjunction, and the infinitive clause to be married to ... makes this choice awkward and unidiomatic. Although E uses an appropriate conjunction, in order that, the verb form would marry is unidiomatic and illogical (might marry would be better).

so as to 后面的marry可能有两个逻辑主语:hengry 3 和 his marriage,所以不合适。

我也没有找到 so as to 做正确选项的例子, 不过也不能就因此判定它肯定错,还得分析逻辑意思。


[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-19 15:40:32编辑过]

作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 15:44
OG11中
对于第二题的解释是说用了x happeded so that y could happen
的结构
so引导从句表示结果或者是原因

应该和so as to 没有关系

作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 15:48
谢谢拉~!!!!!嘿嘿
作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 15:50

Awkward and imprecise, A does not specify who is to marry Anne.

难道我理解错了吗?


作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 15:59
以下是引用飞不高在2009-4-19 15:06:00的发言:

88. The Emperor Augustus, it appears, commissioned an idealized sculpture portrait, the features of which are so unrealistic as to constitute what one scholar calls an "artificial face."

(A)  so unrealistic as to constitute

(B)  so unrealistic they constituted

(C)  so unrealistic that they have constituted

(D)  unrealistic enough so that they constitute

(E)  unrealistic enough so as to constitute

楼上的乱码了,应该是这道题吧。

尽管题目里面,so as to 好像都是错误的,但解释里面却用了,比如:

196. It is possible that Native Americans originally have migrated to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that once existed between Siberia and Alaska.

(A)  have migrated to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that once existed

(B)  were migrating to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that existed once

(C)  migrated over a bridge of land to the Western Hemisphere that once existed

(D)  migrated to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land that once existed

(E)  were migrating to the Western Hemisphere over a bridge of land existing once

Choice D, the best answer, correctly uses the past-tense verb forms migrated and existed to refer to actions completed in' the past. Choices A, B, and E present incorrect verb forms for expressing simple past action, and existing once in E is imprecise. Although choice C manages the correct tense, it misplaces the sentence elements so as to suggest that the Western Hemisphere once existed between Siberia and Alaska.


对呀对呀 OG解释里常常有这种事儿~~但是这个解释里面的so as to的确没错 没有歧义吧...前面的it就是它的主语~~^^


作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 16:09
以下是引用飞不高在2009-4-19 15:40:00的发言:

67. Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newbom children.

(A)  provide workers with unpaid leave so as to

(B)  to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to

(C)  provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they

(D)  to provide workers with unpaid leave so that
    they can

(E)  provide workers with unpaid leave and

Choices A, C, and E are ungrammatical because, in this context, requiring ... employers must be followed by an infinitive. These options display additional faults: in A, so as to fails to specify that the workers receiving the leave will be the people caring for the infants and children;
   in order that they, as used in C, is imprecise and unidiomatic; and E says that the bill being debated would require the employers themselves to care for the children. Choice B offers the correct infinitive, to provide, but contains the faulty so as to. Choice D is best.

比如这道题,之所以“so as to”被否定,解释里面说得很明确,后面动作的逻辑主语存在歧义;

而我前面贴得196解释里面用到so as to,后面动作的逻辑主语只能是it,没有歧义。

再比如:

171. In 1527 King Henry VIII sought to have his marriage to Queen Catherine annulled so as to marry Anne Boleyn.

(A)  so as to marry

(B)  and so could be married to

(C)  to be married to

(D)  so that he could marry

(E)  in order that he would marry

The sentence calls for an adverbial clause of purpose to explain why Henry sought the annulment. D, the best choice, does this clearly and correctly. It is introduced by an appropriate conjunction, so that, and contains a logically appropriate verb form, could marry. Awkward and imprecise, A does not specify who is to marry Anne. B substitutes an illogical coordinate predicate for the needed purpose clause; because the annulment had not yet been granted. Henry could not remarry. C lacks an appropriate conjunction, and the infinitive clause to be married to ... makes this choice awkward and unidiomatic. Although E uses an appropriate conjunction, in order that, the verb form would marry is unidiomatic and illogical (might marry would be better).

so as to 后面的marry可能有两个逻辑主语:hengry 3 和 his marriage,所以不合适。

我也没有找到 so as to 做正确选项的例子, 不过也不能就因此判定它肯定错,还得分析逻辑意思。


不好意思~刚看到您的第二个留言~~嘿嘿 把我刚才的回复忽略掉吧~~

我语法不透彻 做题时常靠语感^^我想请教一个问题哈~~

我也能感觉到so as to marry Anne Boleyn  的逻辑主语很 not clear 有多重可能...但是我判断不出除了 King Henry VIII 具体还有哪些可能...您说“可能有两个逻辑主语:hengry 3 和 his marriage,所以不合适”为什么它的逻辑主语不会是Queen Catherine 呢?

我真的不懂哦诶~~麻烦解释解释啦~~


作者: LWfighting    时间: 2009-4-19 16:14
以下是引用xxxyyyzzz1在2009-4-19 15:44:00的发言:
OG11中
对于第二题的解释是说用了x happeded so that y could happen
的结构
so引导从句表示结果或者是原因

应该和so as to 没有关系

麻烦再请问一下这道题C选项的解释哈

In 1527 King Henry VIII sought to have his marriage to Queen Catherine annulled so as to marry Anne Boleyn.

(A)  so as to marry

(B)  and so could be married to

(C)  to be married to

(D)  so that he could marry

C选项的解释是【the infinitive must  be preceded by a conjunction(in order) 】为什么啊?完全迷茫了...


作者: syxphoebe    时间: 2009-4-19 16:44

不好意思。才看到哈。不麻烦不麻烦。一起进步哈。

大全224题(或者新东方小兰最新版p296-28题)

214.Climatic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the weather.
(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them---------(A)


作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 16:52
我是这么理解的
句子的意思是
国王为了和AB结婚,让他和QC的婚姻无效。
seek的用法有一个是seek to do sth,意思是“to try to achieve or get something”
在本句中,是seek to have sth done,sought to have his marriage annulled,后面是做目的状语,表示为了做什么事情,很自然的是so that的结构。
在GMAT中,表示目的的时候很少用for,to do ,因为被认为这样的表达时不清楚的,所以OG解释说用in order to,如果是to be married to 那主语是谁呢?
举个简单的例子,没有什么逻辑的,I go to school in order to marry a boy.
但是我们不说 I go to school to be married to a boy.
下面这种说法很诡异吧?
请指正~

作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 16:53
这个是太xxxx以至于的意思吧?中学学的最基础的那种?
作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 16:56
以下是引用LWfighting在2009-4-19 16:09:00的发言:

不好意思~刚看到您的第二个留言~~嘿嘿 把我刚才的回复忽略掉吧~~

我语法不透彻 做题时常靠语感^^我想请教一个问题哈~~

我也能感觉到so as to marry Anne Boleyn  的逻辑主语很 not clear 有多重可能...但是我判断不出除了 King Henry VIII 具体还有哪些可能...您说“可能有两个逻辑主语:hengry 3 和 his marriage,所以不合适”为什么它的逻辑主语不会是Queen Catherine 呢?

我真的不懂哦诶~~麻烦解释解释啦~~

个人觉得,考场上很多时候可能就是靠感觉答题,否则速度快不了。

不过,感觉也有不同阶段吧,开始是朦胧的,就是“蒙”,然后通过作题总结,掌握规律,进化到手中无剑,心中亦无剑,就无敌了,哈哈。

嘿嘿,我还在靠感觉的社会主义初级阶段。

have his marriage to Queen Catherine 是一个整体,queen catherine 作为介词to的宾语,整个词组的中心词是marriage.

所以,queen catherine不会起到干扰作用。


作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 17:01
以下是引用LWfighting在2009-4-19 16:14:00的发言:

麻烦再请问一下这道题C选项的解释哈

In 1527 King Henry VIII sought to have his marriage to Queen Catherine annulled so as to marry Anne Boleyn.

(A)  so as to marry

(B)  and so could be married to

(C)  to be married to

(D)  so that he could marry

C选项的解释是【the infinitive must  be preceded by a conjunction(in order) 】为什么啊?完全迷茫了...

in order to 也有歧义吧……

另外,marry to,这个 to 多余吧


作者: xxxyyyzzz1    时间: 2009-4-19 17:01

菜鸟我在OG上找到一道题,不承认so  as 表否定的比较的。。。
OG76
never before had taxpayers confronted so many changes at once as they had in the Tax Reform Act of 1986.
我们抛开时态不说,

A的解释是:so many...as is not the correct indiom.....

答案选了as many chages at once as they confronted in

what's ur opinion?


作者: syxphoebe    时间: 2009-4-19 17:17

关于C)

我想。这里前半部分的句意已经挺清楚地了。原文中so as to的出现表明了这里需要的是一个目的状语。读完C)总感觉句子成分间的关系不清晰。挺乱的。加入一个连词in order 。既能更好的表现前半句的purpose,又使得前后半句的划分清晰可见。不是很好吗?就像D)中,句子关系一目了然。

而且不定式to单独出现时一般更常在固定搭配或习惯表达中吧。同时,好像,不可以出现在句尾(即,逗号之后成为一个单独的成分)

只是个人感觉。至于一些总结性的观点因为学习进度有限还说不好哈。


作者: syxphoebe    时间: 2009-4-19 17:21

so。。。as在否定句中使用。

否定句仅限于no和not。

这里never只是有否定意味。但并不是否定句。所以用as。。。as是正确的。


作者: syxphoebe    时间: 2009-4-19 17:27

同意。飞不高的观点。in order to 有歧义。

请看NN tianwan所分析的。觉得挺有道理的。大家看看哈。

以下是引用tianwan2004-3-1 23:42:00的发言:

So as to 做为目的状语使用,和in order to一样,是不定是做目的状语的明确形式。
                

 

1
            
既然做状语,
            
修饰对象要明确。在这一句话里面,so as to前有2个限定动词,soughthave,这样就造成了歧义:是sought.. so as to, 还是haveannulled so as to。注意,从意思上看,这种歧义对我们中国人并没有造成迷惑,但是从语法上分析,是有问题的。就像有些动词必须要接动名词,有些动词必须要接不定式一样,你不能说"我看懂了,没有造成我理解上的问题,所以对了",因为语法上规定了,错的就是错的。
                

 

2 have sth done也很有意思,done后还隐藏着别的主语。所以so as to/in order to/to放在这种结构后面,好像也有些不妥。
                

 

3 so that避免了12的问题。但是在简单系表结构后使用so as to还是很好的。


作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 17:30
以下是引用xxxyyyzzz1在2009-4-19 17:01:00的发言:

菜鸟我在OG上找到一道题,不承认so  as 表否定的比较的。。。
OG76
never before had taxpayers confronted so many changes at once as they had in the Tax Reform Act of 1986.
我们抛开时态不说,

A的解释是:so many...as is not the correct indiom.....

答案选了as many chages at once as they confronted in

what's ur opinion?

Never before had taxpayers confronted so many

changes at once as they had in the Tax Reform Act of 1986.

(A)  so many changes at once as they had in

(B)  at once as many changes as

(C)  at once as many changes that there were with

(D)  as many changes at once as they confronted in

(E)  so many changes at once that confronted them in

Choice D is the best answer, stating grammatically and clearly that, with the 1986 Tax Reform Act, taxpayers confronted more simultaneous changes than ever before. In choice A, the past perfect had [confronted] illogically places the 1986 events in the same time frame as Never before had...; a simple past tense is needed to present the 1986 events as following the earlier ones. Choices B and C awkwardly place at once between confronted and its direct object, changes. Furthermore, B illogically states that the Act itself was many changes, when the point is rather that it presented many changes, and as many ... that is an unidiomatic comparison. Choice E, too, presents an unidiomatic comparison with so many... that.

A的解释里面没找到so many...as is not the correct indiom.....

难道版本不同么

105. An inventory equal to 90 days sales is as much as even the strongest businesses carry, and then only as a way to anticipate higher prices or ensure against shortages.

(A)  as much as even

(B)   so much as even

(C)  even so much as

(D)  even as much that

(E)   even so much that

The idiomatic form for this type of comparison is as much as. Thus, choice A is best. The phrase so much as is used unidiomatically in choices B and C; so much as is considered idiomatic if it is preceded by a negative, as in "She left not so much as a trace." In choices C, D, and E, even is misplaced so that it no longer clearly modifies the strongest businesses. Moreover, the use of that rather than as is unidiomatic in choices D and E.

如果我没搞错的话,og10和11中,大概只有这么一道题用到了not  so...as,但是是用在 not so much...as这样一种固定结构中,不知是否可以看作是ets承认 so...as可以用于否定。

你们有别的例子么?


作者: 飞不高    时间: 2009-4-19 17:33
以下是引用syxphoebe在2009-4-19 17:27:00的发言:

同意。飞不高的观点。in order to 有歧义。

请看NN tianwan所分析的。觉得挺有道理的。大家看看哈。

以下是引用tianwan2004-3-1 23:42:00的发言:

So as to 做为目的状语使用,和in order to一样,是不定是做目的状语的明确形式。
    

 

 

1
   
既然做状语,
   
修饰对象要明确。在这一句话里面,so as to前有2个限定动词,soughthave,这样就造成了歧义:是sought.. so as to, 还是haveannulled so as to。注意,从意思上看,这种歧义对我们中国人并没有造成迷惑,但是从语法上分析,是有问题的。就像有些动词必须要接动名词,有些动词必须要接不定式一样,你不能说"我看懂了,没有造成我理解上的问题,所以对了",因为语法上规定了,错的就是错的。
    

 

 

2 have sth done也很有意思,done后还隐藏着别的主语。所以so as to/in order to/to放在这种结构后面,好像也有些不妥。
    

 

 

3 so that避免了12的问题。但是在简单系表结构后使用so as to还是很好的。

nn 就是 nn,清楚!!




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