How is this really selecting the most likely success stories? What kind of contribution and input are they really bringing into the classroom if they are fresh out of school or have 2 yrs of experience in the classroom?
Bottom line is that MBA schools are one big business. If you believe that, (and you are in denial if you don’t), then how is this helping you
secure big endowment checks from your alumni in the future: Go with the already successful 27yr old + or take a gamble on rising stars?.
Cft... I also know quite some applicants from corporate didn't get invites, some have very strong background (from general public's perspective). That's nothing to complaint, maybe you are right, HBS has its own criteria. The thing is, there are other top schools, isn't it?
How is this really selecting the most likely success stories? What kind of contribution and input are they really bringing into the classroom if they are fresh out of school or have 2 yrs of experience in the classroom?
Bottom line is that MBA schools are one big business. If you believe that, (and you are in denial if you don’t), then how is this helping you
secure big endowment checks from your alumni in the future: Go with the already successful 27yr old + or take a gamble on rising stars?.
as you look into HBS's curriculum
it's easy to tell their 2 forks are heading toward more entrepreneurial and more leadership in organizational restructuring
especially for conglomerate
and due to their academic role on the extreme end
they're looking for some explosive signs indicating leadfrog career
something significant on historical standpoint that nobody had done before
either extremely rare or extremely fast
although LZ is the youngest project manager in the industry
at the age of 30 they're looking for signs on more strategic on corporate scope
or some indication about early executive mindset
since their college drop-out is the richest guy in the world for 1.5 decade
and not even 50 yet
for a globally dominant school like HBS
nothing is too successful to be educated from them
it's about your mentality to do something as worldwide leader
with an extremely steep learning curve
see the successful HBS essays
you'll literally find many people at the age of 30 had already approached regional-director level
or done something revolutionary at their mid-20s
the intensity should be game-changing
not only a youngest something that many people had done even faster before
LZ's successful enough to avoid MBA education in ADs' opinion!
most of time when applicants refer the so-called "decent essays"
when you really do some deeper research on those "essay guides" lying quietly in the nearest book store at the corner of your street
you'll know the ones people refer to are actually not that decent
and most of time far away from the criteria b-schools are looking for
for the common myth about community service
it's not necessary
and won't necessarily prove the applicant a philanthropist
it's about the mentality behind
the authentic empathy
and the whys
only when these question behind questions (QBQ) link together with your entrepreneurial personality will adcoms believe you do things for humanity reasons
the most deadly mentality is to display everything you have on the table and wait for a miracle
it's not an auction, nor a slave sale
it's like the school is a carriage and these students are the horses pulling in the front
YOU are the leader who lead the school forward and change the world
not waiting for the schools to change you
package没有问题
关于申请最经典的和最新的书籍都深入研究过
career goal /why MBA和essays 都和TOP MBA的熟人讨论过多次,很成熟
个人特点定位marketing也非常清晰,有特点又平衡
对学校的研究针对性也有体现
Anyway, good luck to the guys got the invitation
THose failed and those admitted, their essays differ a a lot!
background and GMAT are only cared after essay
That's why you failed. you thought everything is good enough for you!
But when you read all those thousands of qualified essays, you'll find the diff.
个人感觉还是HBS认为你不需要读这个学校。。
我上次也说了MIT拒绝了MIT本科毕业的，工作也是很牛的人，他还甚至去和admission 谈过，为什么连续2年都拒绝我？
人家也就回复了：你不一定需要读MBA的。
The conclusion is applicants need to convince adcoms why you can lead the school forward in global scale
age is never the problem
but the geometric progression you've grown in the career as equivalent
how high you've climbed and how hard you've hit the ground in those years
supposingly general college students graduate at the age of 22
at the age of 30, there're 8 solid years to thrive your career
even masters would have at least 6 solid year
for general college graduates, the time allows you to go through the career accommodation period for the first year and a half or so
then another couple of years to accumulate the cross-displinary specilizations for managerment preparation
being promoted to managerial responsibility at the faster third year or slower 4th year (if you stuck, it means your leadership style is still adjusting)
then at the 6-year line your experience should be ready or semi-ready for a senior manager position
with a master degree, this career curve should be steeper 20%~30%
and the scope should be broadened to regional market level
if you're an entrepreneur, 8 years time is absolutely enough for at least failed twice and now thrive the third start-up
especially for HBS applicants
at the year of 30, adcoms are expecting early executive mindset from applicants
global-scale leadership should be demonstrated multiple times
and at some point of your career
there should be some signs proving "game-changing" leadership
it's a very reasonable prerequisite for HBS
in my experience as MBA career consultant in NSHMBA
a 27 year-old lady in Kellogg MBA, undergraduate from Stanford, before MBA she already completed the corporate yearly R&D plan for her spaceship equipment company supplying NASA, approved by the her board of directors
a 350-page yearly plan, it's literally a thick book
another Indian graduate from Wharton MBA, should be younger than 30 based on his appearance and figure (probably 28 or 29)
excellent English without accent, perfect resume, expressed himself orally very clearly with perfect wording
easily tell he practiced at least hundreds of times
before MBA, he thrived in operation management in IBM during his very early career, extremely consistent career path
in his resume, the first points of each position are all the same
"Being promoted in 4 months to next level"
"Being promoted in 6 months to next level"
"Being promoted in 9 months to next level"
before MBA, he was already senior operation manager in IBM
although I adviced him to add some objectives on these bullets or take them off (you don't get promoted for no reason)
the gentleman insisted to leave them there
another very young Wharton MBA, 27 years old
Lehman Brother senior analyst, fortunately entered Wharton before crisis
at least 200+ financial analysis and reporting experience
multiple promotions toward investment banking before crisis
all these examples reach higher and faster before age of 30
and when you meet these people in person
you'll be blown away by their enthusiasm
their world-changing mentality
and extremely solid skills, both technical and managerial
but no arrogance at all
all of these young superstars are very friendly
passionate to help people around
and you can tell that's why they got promoted so fast
hope these examples can help
package没有问题
关于申请最经典的和最新的书籍都深入研究过
career goal /why MBA和essays 都和TOP MBA的熟人讨论过多次,很成熟
个人特点定位marketing也非常清晰,有特点又平衡
对学校的研究针对性也有体现
Anyway, good luck to the guys got the invitation
if you don't mind
please send the package to my mailbox below
let see if I have the honor to help you
我曾也有同样的问题,但经看了多方帖子后,认为原因可以是 1, 和领导人有关,招生办的人本身的出身就是咨询行业,所以也最熟悉这个行业,当然就招这个行业. 2, 咨询行业本身好多人已经进了HBS 那么可以介绍更多的人进去, 对HBS来说有种招人的安全感, 我感觉老美还是比较在意校友的推荐的. 3,咨询行业出来的很有可能是精英(只能说很有可能,因为毕竟不是每个人都那么有能力有运气的), 所以招了这批人之后一旦人家成名了, HBS 的名誉就也可以跟的往上串, 而他如果招其他行业的话， 例如制造性行业,毕竟要成功还是有一段比较漫长的路要走的,别忘了所有的商学院都是势力的,应该说老美其实和我们中国人没什么区别,人家也是很实际的, 并没有我们想象的又OPEN啊,又什么的. 当然以上只是个人之见.
看LZ应该是marketing的背景,但是HBS并不是marketing强校啊.
不过去年有个奥美的人被HBS录取了.我觉得LZ可以尝试着去联系一下.也许他可以给你很多建议.
他们喜欢不平凡的，在business week上看到了一个28岁的单亲母亲，也被录取了。http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?sr=y&msg=10180.19281&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools
90%没有例外夸张了
consulting比较有优势的一点是将来找工作会稍好一些，学校现在考虑的主要是这个问题，至于diversity只是在好景的时候用来增加亮点
其实做consulting也不一定要MBA，如果essay里面直接写就是为了继续在consulting firm里面往上走，大部分还是行不通的
但素质没有领先，很难differentiate，我很同意
package没有问题
关于申请最经典的和最新的书籍都深入研究过
career goal /why MBA和essays 都和TOP MBA的熟人讨论过多次,很成熟
个人特点定位marketing也非常清晰,有特点又平衡
对学校的研究针对性也有体现
Anyway, good luck to the guys got the invitation
这个说法太自负了。不想说什么了。我怎么感觉你的essay那么眼熟（假定我是委员会的人）。你自己又在哪里？
90%没有例外夸张了
consulting比较有优势的一点是将来找工作会稍好一些，学校现在考虑的主要是这个问题，至于diversity只是在好景的时候用来增加亮点
其实做consulting也不一定要MBA，如果essay里面直接写就是为了继续在consulting firm里面往上走，大部分还是行不通的
但素质没有领先，很难differentiate，我很同意
同意啊！我最失败的一点，就是在面kellogg的时候，被问是否被公司sponsor，我不经考虑直接就说NO了（其实是可以申请sponsor的，但因为我不想回原来的firm工作，就直接说NO）。估计这一点，是我被kellogg据掉的主要因素之一。
关键是你个人素质. DavidLee同志好像是来做生意的... 录取学校或者工作很多都有运气的成分. 其实最好的 B - school学校出来的人也是事业上有不成功或者自己不满意.不管他是 GS 还是 Mckinsey. DavidLee 把那些人吹成 youngstar 真正的 youngstar 可能浪费时间读 MBA 吗? 八年时间真正的 youngstar 在投行都是年入 1M 的 VP 级别的人物. 读完 MBA 从 Associate 做起, 脑子是不是有问题? 发展中国家里的申请人都觉得自己的能力应该有更好的收入改变自己的命运, 发达国家的人就是想换工作. 只有这两种 motivation.
Business 是技术含量很低的学科, 招生的人看你顺眼就可以了.
简单一句话，就是你不吹牛B，你就进不了HBS
30岁,但是一路走来没有弯路
也许就是这点....
Just like one time when Michael Dell made a speech in a top b-school
an Indian MBA student asked him: “You already made that much money, why don’t you just retire, buy a boat and sail somewhere in the world?”
Michael Dell replied him: “Sail a boat is boring. Do you have any idea about how much fun to run a multi-billion company?”
The hardest thing to manage in the world is not machine or any kind of product marketing, but people.
Management is actually teaching the toughest skills called soft skills
Such as communication skills, interpersonal skills, management skills like corporate governance, market strategy, human resources, and the toughest one, leadership.
These soft skills are much harder to learn than hard skills since they take your humanity and soul to grow them.
For the reason why those top schools, especially HBS, admit a bunch of management consultants
because consulting jobs generally require more advanced analytical and strategic mindset to indentify multiple problems in very short time on industrial scale
and generally have more intense training and involvement on corporate strategy planning, as well as organizational management
it also takes seasoned maturity and more well-rounded personality to intensely communicate with multiple parties externally and internally
while at the mean time, diverse cases will inspire creativity or even cross-cultural sensitivity
But when you see those successful essays from the book “65 Successful HBS Application Essays”
you’ll see all different types of people from a wide array of careers
marketing directors, supply chain managers, fresh-graduated students, dancers, soldiers, bankers, entrepreneurs, actors, non-profit social workers, sales…you name it!
there’s no certain favorite job category the schools really prefer
but it’s about our commitment to constantly grow from our yesterday
people may wonder why these incredible achievers who earns tons of money
still try to get into best b-schools and work as a not-so-impressive title like Associate afterward,
the reason is the same as what Michael Dell said
when you possess such advanced analytical and strategic skills
and can deal with most sophisticated business problems in the world
it’s an unbelievable fulfillment, especially it’s a career preparation for executive career path in future
while the b-school trainings open their gate to reach the executive world
Just like Will Smith once shared in an interview for the movie “7 Pounds”
the world is made by people, and how people survive in this world is about contribute to each other, and be fed by each other
why the city is formed, why we need each other
it’s all about helping each other, and it’s called business, even non-profit or social events
it’s all for survival, and all for a meaningful life
How is this really selecting the most likely success stories? What kind of contribution and input are they really bringing into the classroom if they are fresh out of school or have 2 yrs of experience in the classroom?
Bottom line is that MBA schools are one big business. If you believe that, (and you are in denial if you don’t), then how is this helping you
secure big endowment checks from your alumni in the future: Go with the already successful 27yr old + or take a gamble on rising stars?.
maybe you are somehow overqualified?
anyway, good luck`~
算了，开心就好
OR maybe it is time for HBS to reflect on its admission criteria.
２５左右的银行咨询人员也许是美国申请人中的best pool，但是这个思路未必适用于中国申请人：
中国本科生最优秀的那部分，如果不是全部,在本科毕业后直接进入美国最好的研究生院深造
在美国学习工作过中国申请人对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入的掌握，同时又保留中国的背景，能最大限度的吸取和贡献商学院的教学体验，达成其教学初衷
所以把招生思路局限在国内个别公司，某个年龄阶段的申请人未必符合商学院的长期利益
It is the school's own choice just like people will make their own judgement when aware of the untold admission criteria.
No offence, just another way to approach the myth with spirit of independent thinker. Peace and respect.
OR maybe it is time for HBS to reflect on its admission criteria.
２５左右的银行咨询人员也许是美国申请人中的best pool，但是这个思路未必适用于中国申请人：
中国本科生最优秀的那部分，如果不是全部,在本科毕业后直接进入美国最好的研究生院深造
在美国学习工作过中国申请人对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入的掌握，同时又保留中国的背景，能最大限度的吸取和贡献商学院的教学体验，达成其教学初衷
所以把招生思路局限在国内个别公司，某个年龄阶段的申请人未必符合商学院的长期利益
It is the school's own choice just like people will make their own judgement when aware of the untold admission criteria.
Peace
OR maybe it is time for HBS to reflect on its admission criteria.
２５左右的银行咨询人员也许是美国申请人中的best pool，但是这个思路未必适用于中国申请人：
中国本科生最优秀的那部分，如果不是全部,在本科毕业后直接进入美国最好的研究生院深造
在美国学习工作过中国申请人对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入的掌握，同时又保留中国的背景，能最大限度的吸取和贡献商学院的教学体验，达成其教学初衷
所以把招生思路局限在国内个别公司，某个年龄阶段的申请人未必符合商学院的长期利益
It is the school's own choice just like people will make their own judgement when aware of the untold admission criteria.
Peace
商学院注重的是工作经验，在学校里待那么久有啥价值？老实说，接触了那么多在美国读研读博的人，对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入掌握的，真是没遇见几个，整天泡实验室和中国人扎堆的才是主流。他们和麦肯锡/高盛中国区的人比起来，这竞争力差了不是一点半点。。
" 商学院注重的是工作经验，在学校里待那么久有啥价值？老实说，接触了那么多在美国读研读博的人，对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入掌握的，真是没遇见几个，整天泡实验室和中国人扎堆的才是主流。他们和麦肯锡/高盛中国区的人比起来，这竞争力差了不是一点半点。。"
You offended a lot of people on this board. And you are bald and rude by saying this~
以学校的角度来说，哈佛的目的就是培养明日的领袖。如果是为了培养北美这里的亚洲裔的商业领袖，那么有更优秀的大学本科一毕业就去顶尖投行/咨询的大量ABC可以选。如果是为了培养亚洲的领袖，那么在亚洲工作过，有人脉，有潜力的中国申请人对学校更有吸引力。
哈佛并不是简单的招1000名最优秀的学生，为了生源的多样化，学校会把这1000个名额分割成很多pool,你要做的则是证明给学校看你是你那个pool里最优秀的。
" 商学院注重的是工作经验，在学校里待那么久有啥价值？老实说，接触了那么多在美国读研读博的人，对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入掌握的，真是没遇见几个，整天泡实验室和中国人扎堆的才是主流。他们和麦肯锡/高盛中国区的人比起来，这竞争力差了不是一点半点。。"
You offended a lot of people on this board. And you are bald and rude by saying this~
这是我在北美多年的所见所闻，说的都是事实罢了。。单纯技术/学识上的知识，和商场上和商学院里追求的素质教育，并不是一回事。
" 商学院注重的是工作经验，在学校里待那么久有啥价值？老实说，接触了那么多在美国读研读博的人，对美国的文化语言思维习惯有深入掌握的，真是没遇见几个，整天泡实验室和中国人扎堆的才是主流。他们和麦肯锡/高盛中国区的人比起来，这竞争力差了不是一点半点。。"
"You offended a lot of people on this board. And you are bald and rude by saying this~"
But it is the truth, sadly.maybe you are somehow overqualified?
anyway, good luck`~
Personally I don't believe in "overqualified". No matter how successful you think you are, at top b-schools you will always meet people who are more capable in different dimensions. And applicants can never be too successful to be recruited if you truly convince admission committee that an MBA is necessary.
HBS emphasizes impact a lot. What impact will you make to the world after graduation? Do you aspire to be a global business leader? If so, have you demonstrated your track record, your ambition and potential in your admission package?
It is common (and totally fine) that different schools have their own preferences screening candidates. Maybe it is time to think over your admission strategy and the "fit" between you and school.
And don't forget people tend to recruit candidates who are more likable. You centainly not want to work with a person who is aggressive / over confident and who blames other people when he/she fails.
Good Luck!
lz还是静心申请别的学校吧。hbs出来的牛人一大把，但也有一大把混混。能去hbs当然不错，但去不了，也不必心烦意乱。
商学院只是个锦上添花的东西，不要过度迷信它。如果你真的是个人才，就算是不去商学院，也能功成名就，如果是个庸才，就算是侥幸去了hbs，你也不会有多大成就的。
Personally I don't believe in "overqualified". No matter how successful you think you are, at top b-schools you will always meet people who are more capable in different dimensions. And applicants can never be too successful to be recruited if you truly convince admission committee that an MBA is necessary.
HBS emphasizes impact a lot. What impact will you make to the world after graduation? Do you aspire to be a global business leader? If so, have you demonstrated your track record, your ambition and potential in your admission package?
It is common (and totally fine) that different schools have their own preferences screening candidates. Maybe it is time to think over your admission strategy and the "fit" between you and school.
And don't forget people tend to recruit candidates who are more likable. You centainly not want to work with a person who is aggressive / over confident and who blames other people when he/she fails.
Good Luck!
Point perfectly written. I recall reading somewhere that the first thing top b-schools look at applicants is how you peceive and position yourself in the context of the world. Simply assuming being the center of the world and ignoring others' accomplishments are sure signs of immaturity.
Point perfectly written. I recall reading somewhere that the first thing top b-schools look at applicants is how you peceive and position yourself in the context of the world. Simply assuming being the center of the world and ignoring others' accomplishments are sure signs of immaturity.
不可否认，TOP MBA学生都很优秀（包括这个论坛里面出现的TOP MBA男男女女就都是不世出的英才，我觉得），毕业生很多也很成功，
但说到家，毕竟，这些学校乐意录取的是适应西方文化（不一定是最精华的文化）的优秀人群中的一种类型（不必要是最容易成功的类型）而已，所以：
“优秀=TOP MBA=更成功”
这个公式从来也没成立过，现在，有人觉得它成立吗？
如此，何必耿耿于怀呢，哥们？
只是好多最优秀的人才他们没能录取进去，替他们惋惜就好了
我不是很懂mba申请，太年轻只是商科硕士在读。
不过很久以前曾经在这个版上看过一句话
big cows are not in b-schools, those inside are cows-wanna-be.
可能学校觉得lz这样的不需要读b-school就已经能发展得很好了，所以觉得你没有读的意义。
haha, cute story. most Frenchmen don't really care US B-schools, because they don't like schools which are dominated by Americans. Europeans, at least Frenchmen and German as far as I know, they think their own culture and system are superior than American's. that's the fundamental difference between Chinese applicants and European applicants. Plus, in Europe, they have several awesome B-schools already, Insead, LBS, etc.
I also know a Malaysian who rejected HBS and chose Darden as he thought HBS was not for him and he loved Darden's culture.
So don't get obsessed by any brand.
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