LSE vs ETH vs Michigan - ChaseDream

I got offers from the following three master programs

LSE MSc Risk and Stochastics (Duration: 10 months, Tuition fee: 17000 pounds, Living Expense: 8000 pounds, class size 25, no internship, no thesis requirement)
Course Structure: http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/g ... kandStochastics.htm

ETH MAS in Finance (Quantitative Finance and Risk Management)
(Duration: 14-15 months, Tuition fee: 5000 CHF, Living Expense: 20000 CHF, class size 20-25, compulsory company master thesis, internship arrangement but not guaranteed)

Course Structure: http://www.msfinance.ch/2007/Courses.html

Placement Record: http://www.alumni-msfinance.ch/classvisitor.php?klassenid=3

University of Michigan AnnArbor (Master of Financial Engineering)
(Duration: 12-15 months, Tuition Fee: 50000 USD, Living Expense: 20000 USD, class size 45-50, Applied Finance Project, internship arrangement but not guaranteed)

Course Structure: http://interpro-academics.engin.umich.edu/fep/curriculum.htm

Placement Record: Summer Internship for Umich MFE ( Not very impressive indeed, cos only around 60% students got internship offer...28 out of 50....and no top 1st tier banks like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, RBS)

Please find below some internship offers that are already received by our current students:

AXA Investment management - CDO
Barclays Capital - Technology (New York)
Blackrock Inc. (New York)
CICC - Capital Markets (Beijing)
DRW Trading - Trading (Chicago)
DTE Energy - Energy Trading (Ann Arbor)
DTE Energy - Risk Management (Ann Arbor)
DTE Energy - Risk Management (Ann Arbor)
DTE Energy - Risk Management (Ann Arbor)
Deutsche Bank - Global Banking (Hong Kong)
Deutsche Bank - Global Markets (New York)
Deutsche Bank - Global Markets (New York)
Deutsche Bank - Global Markets (India)
JPMorgan - Structuring & Trading (New York)
JPMorgan - Technology (Chicago)
Lehman Brothers - Investment Banking (Hong Kong)
Lehman Brothers - Technology (New York)
Lincoln Investment Group - Portfolio Management
Riskmetrix Group - Technology (Ann Arbor)
Societe Generale  - Global Equities & Derivatives Solutions (Hong Kong)
Societe Generale  - Global Equities & Derivatives Solutions (Hong Kong)
UBS - Fixed Income Sales & Trading (Hong Kong)
UBS – Investment Banking (Hong Kong)
UBS - Technology (Stamford)
Some hedge fund (Ann Arobr)
Some trading firm (Paris)
Some trading firm (Singapore)
Some Bank (Hong Kong)

which one should I choose?
Personally, I may prefer ETH cos it is cheaper with strong placement records as well. The overall ranking of three U's , ETH, LSE, UMich are nearly the same ( Around top 30-50 )

I have discussed this issue with a plenty of academics, practitioners....they all told me that the three programs above have their own merits and drawbacks.

For LSE, it has very strong network with banking industry and London is a great financial hub (just behind New York City). However, the course structure is not very solid (some of them are related to insurance mathematics and just 6 taught courses)  and short in duration with no internship nor thesis arrangement. In addition, LSE is strong in finance and economics traditionally instead of the maths department.

For UMich, it also has a very strong name in US and Hong Kong. With the backup from Ross Business School, there is a good balance between business-oriented and hard engineering training skills. The MFE program is very practical in overall. Plus holding a US degree should be better for job seeking in financial industry. But, the location of UMich at AnnArbor is not that good and quite expensive.

For ETH, one of the top 5 schools in Europe, (1,2 Oxbridge, 3. IC 4,5 ETH or LSE ) it is very strong in natural science including maths and it is established with Swiss Banking Institutes. The course structure is solid, you need to take around 10 courses in one semester followed by a company thesis and internship. However, the location of ETH is not that good though Zurich is another financial hub, in particular, on the asset management aspect. Their alumni told me that ETH is reputable for European Banks (UBS, CS, DB, KBC, ABN, Rabo, SwissRe, SG, BNP, Natixis, Caylon etc.)  only rather US Banks.

I am still struggling between these three choices.....
I look forward to any kindly reply. Thanks

同属一个档次，不多选欧还是选美就是你自己的意愿了。按照现在的态势看来，LSE应该比UMICH好点点，ETHZ虽然号称欧洲最好金融类项目，但是始终不是英语母语国家。楼主强人，CONG！

LSE MSc Risk and Stochastics is good due to the brand name of LSE....but the course structure seems to be less solid...just 6 taught courses.....

以下是引用pgstudent在2008-5-4 20:16:00的发言：

How about if I wanna work in Hong Kong as a credit/market risk analyst?

do you think it may be beneficial if I apply European banks after ETH program?

LSE MSc Risk and Stochastics is good due to the brand name of LSE....but the course structure seems to be less solid...just 6 taught courses.....

Actually, UMich is a good school but not a top school in US.......

It is heard that the top master of finance programs in Europe should be:

1. LBS Master of Finance

2. LSE Master of Econ and Finance

3. Oxford MSc Computational Finance

4. Cambridge Mphil Finance

5. ETH MAS in Finace

6. Imperial College MSc Maths and Finance

7. Paris VI DEA Probability and Finance....

What do you think?

X的竞争力在欧洲很强大，绝对不次于oxbridge，city里面N多X的校友，很多desk都是法国人，communication用法语的。FT有文章说X占据了city的半壁江山。

Well, I would say LSE's brand name is really very reputable in London area....but in term of quantitative related area, it is not the strengthen area of LSE.....unlike their econ and finance program.....

U Mich is also good...but can not compare with top US like Princeton, Columbia, NYU, UCB, CMU, Stanford, Chicago....etc.

你提供的网站上，ETH的就业基本局限在瑞士金融圈。瑞银，瑞士在保险，瑞士人寿etc。

从侧面可以了解，在大欧洲或者LZ想要去的亚洲，影响要小于本地。

不仅仅是商学院，backed up by a reputable multidiscipline university, 能够感受到国际一流大学的氛围和庞大的校友网络（多学科校友），还是很不错的。

How about U of Toronto MMF? (I haven't applied it....but I may apply it if I give up the offers this year...)

On the other hand, IC's Master of Maths and Finance was very good in the past....but some of the best faculties have left...and now only Professor Mark Davis is most reputable...

On the other hand, how is the reputation of the following economics graduate program

yes, you are right....let me tell you a real story that there are only around 20% of Cornell MFE can secure an internship position in NYC.....the placement rate of U of Michigan MFE is also not so good at this moment....

Most of them also predict that the job market at London City will become worse in near future like NYC....

Actually, I already have a master of financial maths and statistics at HKUST....with a decent academic record...I have got many interviews from top tier I-banks like UBS, CS, DB, Barclays, SG....but failed....so I wanna equip myself with deeper understanding in particular the field of credit/market risk.

for Quant, you need to compete with PhD and top MFE from UCB,NYU, Princeton, Columbia....

for risk analyst, not many of them intend to join risk department due to the unattractive compensation system....(on the other hand, I wanna work as a risk analyst....and I believe that the risk management program at ETH should be one of the most structured program in this area...their renowned faculties in risk management like Paul Embracts, Philip Schbonchers, Delbaen.....)

the professors at HKUST told me that in term of course structure, ETH should be better than LSE and UMich...

but LSE has its brand name at London and the location advantage...but their faculties are not that strong in risk management...

UMich, only good thing is the interdisciplinary course structure with the back up from Ross business School....but their faculties in financial engineering/quantitative finance are not that well known as ETH and even LSE....(Unlike other top MFE in US, Columbia : E.Derman, Paul Glasserman, Steven Kou, Cornell: Robert Jarrow, NYU: Peter Carr, UCB: Mark Roberstein, Stanford: Duffy......

What's more, it is less risky to take ETH program as the tuition fee is cheap....and I may apply NYU, UCB, Princeton MFE upon completion of ETH program if I can not find a decent position in Quant Team.........

But, if I can find a job at Zurich, then I will work for a shortwhile first......

On the other hand, it seems that you won't recommend any master of applied econ/financial econ over quantitative finance/financial engineering?

the requirements for Quant position are too high .....unless you are very smart...

I got 3rd round interview from Barclays.....and the have three interviewers (associate or above...) asked me some very technical questions........

I won't aim at any Quant position....I know that i am not a potential guy for quant...

I aim at Risk/Asset analyst.....that's why I need to upgrade my current skillsets on risk management.

Sometimes, dont be too wilful...Top I-bank may be not the best choice for u, lay down urself and try some 2nd tier or even 3rd tier I-bank. But there is a fact that we are not lucky to meet such a depressed job mkt this yr, so even if u got another MSc next yr, maybe the situation is the same...My background is much less than u but I found a good position (at least I think so

) in EU this yr, so I think u can find a good job after u have a degree in UK/Mainland of EU coz we all know that HK's degree is not helpful in HK. But as u mentioned that u are not the guy who can take Quan. job, so dont waste a lot of time in MFE/MMF programs, just concentrate on some pure finance program. Here is my recommendation of some 1-yr finance programs in continental EU: MFin in ESCP-EAP/VLERICK/RSM/SDA BOCCONI. Those programs are millions in UK, I guess u know better than me

But most of them told me that the ETH's one is the best in asset managment.....what do you think? (Since Zurich is great in asset management....)

I can tell you that London will be more restrictive to foreigners who planning to work in UK....the main point is the economics will be slowdown for at least 1-2 years.....that's why they may cancel the HSMP in near future.....many job cuts from I-bank in coming year.....

Most of my friends who can get good offers as a structurer after HKUST program are now working in 2nd tier or 3rd tier bank like some French banks..(Natixis, Calyon...something like that....but none of them can step into I-bank as a quant/structurer....)

Actually, if you can not get admission offer from the toppest tier MFE like NYU, Columbia, UC Berkeley, Stanford, Princeton,,,,you should forget the route of being a quant.......

I have kept in contacting the upcoming admitted candidates of ETH program......their profiles are already very good.

One graduted from U of Pennsylvania and working in GS as a risk analyst, one graduated from U of Bonn PhD Pure Maths, one graduated from Peking U Maths with a very top GPA (He is now considering between ETH and CMU program)

That's why I am thinking if I should apply Financial Economics from Duke, NYU, UMich, LSE...

I know that good statistics background is beneficial for studying financial economics in particular for econometrics, time series, mathematics of eocnomics...

Actually I am now working as a junior economics research ........in a small consultant firm.

And you are right that the degree from Hong Kong can not help much on job seeking, in particular for international frims....That's why I must study abroad!!! .I know that top 5 UK or top 20 US schools have beneficials, but is it really a top 1 Swiss school would not have any advantage over the degree from Hong Kong like HKU, HKUST, CUHK?

On the other hand, I am still thinking if it is the right time to study abroad in this year.....due to worse market conditions in financial industry...

First of all, never hear that the program of ETH is the best in asset management. I even feel that ETH lags behind HSG.

On the other hand, US 70K is quite a risky investment at this moment.....if I choose UMich....

But I really wanna be a market/credit risk analyst.....so???? a pure finance program can not fit my aim......

Are you sure the master of financial economics at Duke is not so keen in admission?

HSG is prestigious in German-speaking region for quite a long time but in its management and economics rather than the financial branches such as H/F, asset/risk manangement. While ETHZ's MAS in finance is pretty strong in those sides. They have different advantages.

but what do you think if ETH MAS in finance compares with UST,HKU and CUHK? in particular for quantitative risk management?

(I won't aim at being a quant....I am not that level.....no matter how boring is the risk management, it is just fine....for me...)

U cannot compare ETHZ MAS with HKUST, HKU and CUHK since ETHZ works mainly in EU but a little bit restricted in HK although it is definitely stronger than those programs in HK.

Plus, I still believe 'made in USA' and top UK schools like LBS/LSE/OXCAM almost beats all in HK.

Of course, everything depends on urself but my words just a description of the average situation.

Actually, my plan is to study another MFE/risk mgt so that I can find a risk management position upon graduation...