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标题: [讨论]大虾指教:句子中多处有which, what,it指代如何理解? [打印本页]
作者: ivy3997 时间: 2008-4-9 11:11
标题: [讨论]大虾指教:句子中多处有which, what,it指代如何理解?
作者在论述写作时删改佳段,可能会连原来最得意的中心段落也删去时,quote了Henry James的一段话。(比较怕quotation,一旦看不懂就连作者意图和态度也不明白了),还请牛人,耐心人指点一二了
Henry James knew it well, and said it best. In his preface to The spoils of Poynton, he pities the writer, in a comical pair of sentences that rises to a howl: “Which is the work in which he hasn’t surrendered, under dire difficulty, the best thing he meant to have kept? In which indeed, before the dreadful done, doesn’t he ask himself what has become of the thing all for the sweet sake of which it was to proceed to that extremity?”
which it was to 中的which和it都指什么呢? 最后一句如何理解呢?rise to howl,代表了Henry J.的讽刺?还是作者认为是讽刺的
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-4-9 11:13:48编辑过]
作者: dphxmg 时间: 2008-4-10 03:35
google了一把,本文出自 “The Writing Life” by Annie Dillard。
文章写的太变态了(原文用了太多metaphor,可能是我读的文学作品(creative writing)太少了)。
先讲一下“rise to a howl” 这个不是讽刺。既不是Annie用来讽刺HJ的,也不是HJ用来讽刺作家的。这也是一个修辞吧,感觉是个simile,但是大体上是Annie用来高度赞扬HJ的话说的在理儿,大意是说 HJ的话有"振聋发聩"(rise to a howl)之效.
另外,Annie似乎不认为写了又删甚至是删除好的段落或改变中心思想是件坏事。She thinks this is the way it is,I think.
至于"all for the sweet sake of which it was to proceed to that extremity",我觉得这是限定性定语从句,修饰“the thing”.所以,"which" 是引导该从句的先行词;"it" 则是形式上的主语,指代 "to proceed to that extremity".
作者: ivy3997 时间: 2008-4-10 17:48
谢谢你的耐心,我还有点意见想跟您探讨下。
最后一句which it was to proceed to that extremity是不是整体做for the sake of的名词性成分呢,他应该是说“难道他没有问过自己这样子对待文章(应该是该删的不删)就是为了最终的一个甜蜜的目的?这个目的 which it was是去走极端。
我在词典上查到“proceed to extremeties
走极端, 采取非常[极端]手段”
是这样理解吗?这样说来我又觉得which应该是修饰sake的,对吗?
PS:那个“振聋发聩”您翻译的太巧妙了。佩服不已
作者: dphxmg 时间: 2008-4-10 18:42
我已经说了"for the sweet sake of which..."是用来修饰 "the thing". 实际上,如果我们把这整句话抻直了就是“It was to proceed to that extremity for the sweet sake of the thing.” (or "To proceed to that extremity is for the sweet sake of the thing.") 当然,这不是原文结构。但是,这里我是想用这个方法来表明这个从句的结构。所以呢,“which”实际上是指代“the thing”的。
在这句话里,我个人的理解是,"the dreadful done" 和"that extremity"指代的是相同的事物,即,"the writer's difficulty situation that he must jettison not only the best written part but also, oddly, the part which was to have been the very point"。
尽管,字典给出一个释义,但我们要灵活对待它。词句的具体含义要从上下文里得出。比如说,“城管”这个词我们都知道原义指人,作名词用。但是语言的使用本来就是一个创造性的过程。让我们来看一下百度百科对该词意思和用法的解释:
1、名词:以暴力手段维护××(疑为“城市”二字———王小山注)形象,专门欺压租不起商铺、办不起执照的商贩以及其他弱势群体的黑社会组织。例句:城管
上道,鸡飞狗跳。2、形容词:形容残暴、血腥、恐怖。例句:你也太城管了!3、动词:等同于打、砸、抢。例句:他不老实就城管他一下!4、叹词:无奈之
意。例句:这世道,城管!
(注:该词条已被“和谐”,此处转引自王小山的博文: “辛酸的城管” at http://www.bullogger.com/blogs/wangxiaoshan/archives/125695.aspx
)
实际上,我在括号里对“和谐”一次的用法,也是一个例子。
作者: litigator 时间: 2008-4-27 05:21
which这里是限制性代词,修饰前面的sake。it是指前面的thing。
rise to a howl并未隐藏任何高深的含义。只是简单的夸张形容而已。
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