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标题: 再议LSAT-12-1-12 [打印本页]

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-21 00:01
标题: 再议LSAT-12-1-12
不好意思，再次提出这个问题，是因为我不明白为什么C不对。

LSAT-12-1-12
12. in the centerville botanical gardens, all
tulip trees are older than any maples. a
majority, but not all, of the garden's sycamores
are older than any of its maples. all the
garden's maples are older than any of its
dogwoods.
if the statements above are true, which one of
the following must also be true of trees in the
centerville botanical gardens?
(a) some dogwoods are as old as the youngest
tulip trees.
(b) some dogwoods are as old as the youngest
sycamores.
(c) some sycamores are not as old as the oldest
dogwoods.
(d) some tulip trees are not as old as the oldest
sycamores.
(e) some sycamores are not as old as the youngest
tulip trees.

答案E。这个没问题。可是我不明白为什么C不对。

文中说大部分S 》M. 故，大部分S》D。所以 C应该也是对的呀。而且，既然一定有 S》M，那么some Sycamores 一定不和oldest dogwood 一样大。

请NN指点。

作者: qww 时间: 2003-12-21 10:32
我同意你的看法。

作者: 八戒 时间: 2003-12-21 11:36
我觉得是不是中英文翻译的时候有点问题呀。

比如C中：
尽管英文表达是： not as old as
中文翻译可能是：比较可大可小；
但如果是英文的话：not as odl as == younger than
for example:
The game is not as bad as what you think.
That is : The game is better than what you think.

If so, it is obvious that C is iincorrect.

讨论.........

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-21 12:08
我觉得应该是两个方面都可以理解的。就你说的例子吧：

The game is not as bad as what you think。我可以在后面在加一句，it is even much worse than you think. 你说呢？

继续讨论中...

作者: 八戒 时间: 2003-12-21 12:52
我觉得还是单方面，
用中文的专有名词来说：就是“偏意复词”！

我们看一下以下几个例子（LSAT）：
A company’s personnel director surveyed employees about their satisfaction with the company’s system for awarding employee performance ratings. The survey data indicated that employees who received high ratings were very satisfied with the system. The personnel director concluded from these data that the company’s best-performing employees liked the system.
The personnel director’s conclusion assumes which of the following?
(A) No other performance rating system is as good as the current system.
(B) The company’s best-performing employees received high ratings.
(C) Employees who received low ratings were dissatisfied with the system.
(D) Employees who receive high ratings from a performance-rating system will like that system.
(E) The company’s best-performing employees were motivated to perform well by the knowledge that they would receive performance ratings.

In any field, experience is required for a proficient person to become an expert. Through experience, a proficient person gradually develops a repertory of model situations that allows an immediate, intuitive response to each new situation. This is the hallmark of expertise, and or this reason computerized “expert systems” cannot be as good as human exerts. Although computers have the ability to store millions of bits of information, the knowledge of human experts, who benefit from the experience of thousands of situations, is not stored within their brains in the form of rules and facts.
The argument requires the assumption of which one of the following?
(A) Computers can show no more originality in responding to a situation than that built into them by their designers.
(B) The knowledge of human experts cannot be adequately rendered into the type of information that a computer can store.
(C) Human experts rely on information that can be expressed by rules and facts when they respond to new situations.
(D) Future advances in computer technology will not render computers capable of sorting through greater amounts of information.
(E) Human experts rely heavily on intuition while they are developing a repertory of model situations.

就以上两个例子而言，我觉得
not as good as ===worse than

继续讨论.........

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-12-21 12:53:21编辑过]

作者: qww 时间: 2003-12-21 13:39
同意八戒的解释。具体的用法还不很清楚。但查了一下张道真的语法书，其中举了个例子。You're not half as clever as you think you are.给出的翻译为你并不如你想象的一半聪明。还有例子：I don't swim as often as I used to.我游泳的时候不像过去那样多了。
由此可鉴 not as good as ===worse than的解释是正确的。
八戒兄高手！

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-21 14:52
同意你对具体例子的看法。

但是就这个not as adj as 单句而言，一定是可以两方面理解的。问题就在于，在上面这个题目中，可否把some sycamores are not as old as the oldest dogwoods. 理解为： younger than. 我还是没看出上下文中有说明只能理解成younger than, 而不能理解成older than.

事实上，不等于一定是有两个方面的呀。要么大于，要么小于。

我试了试对C取否定。假设要是所有的S都和oldest dogwoods 一样大，那么，因为dogwood 一定小于maple. 所以所有的S一定小于maple. 这样就和上文相违背了呀。

再论中...

作者: weane 时间: 2003-12-21 15:55
大部分的s比m老，m比d老，当然推出大部分的s比d老，不过不能反推有些s比d年轻，有没有想过，有可能所有的s都比d老，比如s都是50年以上，m是55年以下，而d是45年以下。

作者: 八戒 时间: 2003-12-21 22:57

以下是引用bryony在2003-12-21 14:52:00的发言：

我试了试对C取否定。假设要是所有的S都和oldest dogwoods 一样大，那么，因为dogwood 一定小于maple. 所以所有的S一定小于maple. 这样就和上文相违背了呀。

再论中...

我觉得如果C取非后，也不应该是所有的S都和oldest dogwoods一样大呀！
应该是有些s和oldest dogwooods一样大！
对于这个命题，根据原文的信息是没有办法判断的，
可能对，也能错。
因为有些S是小于M的。
所以，我觉得即使C取非后也仍然没有办法判断。

继续热烈讨论中.......

作者: wikeypig 时间: 2003-12-22 12:28
注意问题中的：must also be true
C是一种可能性，E则是一定的。
not as old as 我觉得是不一样老

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-22 14:39
wikeypig MM, 我所不明白的地方就是为什么C只是一种可能性，而不是肯定性。

正如8楼主说的 “大部分的s比m老，m比d老，当然推出大部分的s比d老” 既然大部分S比D老，那么一定有一些 sycamores are not as old as the oldest dogwoods. 对吗？（比它大自然不会跟他一样大喽。）所以我认为是肯定的呀。

还有，对于这个取非，我好像以前听说过，some 等要取 none. 不记得在哪里看到的了？不过，我也没上过XDF的课，不敢肯定。八戒兄弟，你怎么认为？

作者: wikeypig 时间: 2003-12-22 15:25
谁说大部分的s比m老，m比d老，小部分S就不能和D一样老了？

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-22 16:42
MM，我没说小部分的问题呀。同意你对小部分的看法。小部分的情况肯定是不能确定的。

但是“ 大部分的s比m老，m比d老，当然推出大部分的s比d老” 对吗？

C中的 some S 应该也是majortiy S的子集呀。举个例子吧：

说一堆男的，一堆女的，其中大部分男的比所有的女的年纪大。那么我说，一些男的比所有的女的年纪大。不是吗？肯定有一些呀。也就是这个majority 中的一些呀。然后，我再说： some men are not as old as the oldest woman. 不是吗？

作者: 八戒 时间: 2003-12-22 17:17
all 的取非才是 none 吧？

其实我也不大清楚！

还是请牛牛mindfree来吧！

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-22 17:27
同意all 的取非是none. 但是some 呢？不过总感觉， some are so and so. 对其取非，应该是none 才对。就这样想吧：我说有些人很好。你否定说，有些人就很坏。这种否定肯定是无力的。因为我只说了有些人（没说全部。所以你的有些人可能跟我的有些人没有交集。）。但是如果你说，哪里呀，所有的人都不好。那就肯定是否定了我说的话了。

以上就是我对取非的胡乱理解。不知道有没有打了歪靶子。

强烈邀请mindfree 来点化点化这个问题。随便再帮我看看C的选项问题。

作者: mindfree 时间: 2003-12-23 01:43
First of all, weane has answered the question about C. Majority S>M, all M>D cannot lead to some S
"同意all 的取非是none"? What I think as "negative" is something that is contrary to the original. So neg all is "not all". Therefore, neg "all of us are going to the Christmas party in Beijing" is "not all of us are going to ..." or "some of us are not going ...". However, I think it does not really matter when we use it for GMAT, since either "none" or "not all" will very likely lead to the same answer.

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-12-23 1:43:43编辑过]

作者: mindfree 时间: 2003-12-24 00:53
not as old as = younger

作者: qww 时间: 2003-12-24 12:52
谢谢总教头，可以确认了not as old as = younger

作者: weane 时间: 2003-12-24 13:38
其实关键问题在于not as old as 的解释，我同意mindfree的看法。

作者: snow_mountain 时间: 2003-12-24 14:34
好，谢谢总教头和大家了。

作者: mariezhu 时间: 2004-3-14 17:00
From "Majority SY>M", we can conclude that there are some SY<M, but it does not necessarily mean this part of SY is not as old as the oldest D.

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