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标题: 求教一道很有争议的题:11th OG CR第10题~~ [打印本页]

作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-8-31 23:23
标题: 求教一道很有争议的题:11th OG CR第10题~~

10. Advertisement: For sinus pain, three out of four hospitals give their patients Novex. So when you want the most effective painkiller for sinus pain, Novex is the one to choose.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the advertisement's argument?

(A)          Some competing brands of painkillers are intended to reduce other kinds of pain in addition to sinus pain.

(B)         Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.

(C)         Many drug manufacturers increase sales of their products to hospitals by selling these products to the hospitals at the lowest price the manufacturers can afford.

(D)         Unlike some competing brands of painkillers, Novex is available from pharmacies without a doctor's prescription.

(E)         In clinical trials Novex has been found to be more effective than competing brands of painkillers that have been on the market longer than Novex.

Argument Evaluation

Situation s. An advertisement claims that Novex is the most effective painkiller for sinus pain since three out of four hospitals use it for patients.

Reasoning What paint undermines the advertisement's claim? The argument for Novex's effectiveness as a painkiller is based upon the hospitals' usage. Consider what might be driving the hospitals' choice of medications to administer. Three out of four hospitals might be giving their patients Novex not because it is the most effective painkiller for sinus pain, but because it is inexpensive. If this is the case, the argument is seriously undermined.

A          Other kinds of pain are irrelevant to the argument since the claim is only about sinus pain.

B          This point does not undermine the advertisement's claim.

C          Correct. This statement properly identifies a factor that could well undermine the advertisement's claim: the hospitals may be using this medication because it is the most cost effective for them.

D         Novex's nonprescription formula is not relevant to the claim.

E         

s

This point strengthens, rather than weakens, the claim. The correct answer is C.

这是OG的解释,但是狒狒在网络课堂中的答案是D选项,个人也认为D 〉C ,请大家赐教!~~


作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-1 00:05
up!~~大家帮忙看看阿~~
作者: myamanda    时间: 2007-9-1 01:03

医院医生较多给开这种药来治这个病,广告说是因为这药疗效好,问weaken

c,因为厂家给较低价给医院,这样医生多开就能提高医院收入,weaken了是疗效好

d,它是非处方药,这能说明啥呢?和疗效,和医生无关啊


作者: angela13218    时间: 2007-9-1 01:37

题目的结论是建立在:医院通常开这种药。所以结论得出这药有效。

而药店买这种药不需要开药方,与上面前提无关,因此跟结论也没有直接关系。


作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-1 23:30

楼上两位请先听下狒狒老师的解释:

D:在美国,医药制度跟中国不一样,他们的医院不买药,也就是医院跟药店是分开的,所以医院跟药店没有本质的效益上的联系~~因为Novex这种药不是处方药,所以患者就不需要每次买药都要先去医院挂号然后找医生开药才能到药店买药,所以患者比较喜欢这种药,而医生也就给他们开此药~~这是~费允杰老师在新东方网络课堂第6讲第17题中的答案跟解释~~D

C选项说的是 Many drug manufacturers increase sales ~~~请看好Many drug manufacturers~~请问你怎么就能知道many里包括Novex的公司?

拙见~~还请大家继续讨论~~


作者: Whitney    时间: 2007-9-2 06:35
(C) is right.

The logical structure of argument is the following:
Premise: B (Hospital Usage)
Conclusion: A (Effectiveness of Novex)
Assumption:  Only A can lead to B.
"The effectiveness of Novex is the only factor that leads to its wide use in hospitials.
If the assumption is right, one can conclude that there must be A because there is B.

If the assumption is wrong, then, the argument will be weakened.
To attack the assumption to point out a logical flaw (GMAT tests reasoning!) is always better than to think a specific situation when the conclusion may be wrong.




作者: 行缘    时间: 2007-9-2 13:29

此题表面推理如下: 四个医院里三个开N->N最有效。

实际推理:N最有效(原因)是四个医院里三个开的原因,求weaken,找他因。

D: 既然医生已经"give"了,不管是药方还是实际的药,我觉得D选项都与本推理无关了。就算是药方,如果是医生开的,药店没有理由不卖。至于说以后多次买此药,是不是药店是不是每次都需要医生的药方,从而给患者带来不便,如果是这样,我觉得GMAT也考的太远了,不符合ETS的风格。

C:同意rain119911 说的,many drug manufactures都这么做,即这是一个对大家都平等的条件,凭什么就说这weaken了Novex的表现了呢?也许N给医院的价格还最高呢?还有这条同时也从侧面说明了药商是直接卖药给hospital的,所以,狒狒对D的分析是不成立的。

我倒是对选项B很不解:Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.  如果病人对医院的常用药不满,many医院就会推荐N药,而不是其他药,这不正是 题目中四个医院三个推荐N的一个他因解释吗?注意,B选项中还用了many hospitals。

困惑,望各位帮助。


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-2 13:31:31编辑过]

作者: MGi_Rei    时间: 2007-9-2 16:03

这个题目FF的解释和XDF一样,但是请遵照OG,

对于D选象的反驳,LS的描述已经非常到位了,既然已经从医院出来了,和是否是处方药已经没有关系了


作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-2 23:41
以下是引用行缘在2007-9-2 13:29:00的发言:

此题表面推理如下: 四个医院里三个开N->N最有效。

实际推理:N最有效(原因)是四个医院里三个开的原因,求weaken,找他因。

D: 既然医生已经"give"了,不管是药方还是实际的药,我觉得D选项都与本推理无关了。就算是药方,如果是医生开的,药店没有理由不卖。至于说以后多次买此药,是不是药店是不是每次都需要医生的药方,从而给患者带来不便,如果是这样,我觉得GMAT也考的太远了,不符合ETS的风格。

C:同意rain119911 说的,many drug manufactures都这么做,即这是一个对大家都平等的条件,凭什么就说这weaken了Novex的表现了呢?也许N给医院的价格还最高呢?还有这条同时也从侧面说明了药商是直接卖药给hospital的,所以,狒狒对D的分析是不成立的。

我倒是对选项B很不解:Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.  如果病人对医院的常用药不满,many医院就会推荐N药,而不是其他药,这不正是 题目中四个医院三个推荐N的一个他因解释吗?注意,B选项中还用了many hospitals。

困惑,望各位帮助。


还是感觉C选项实在难以weaken这个题目,经 行缘 一推理发现B选项确实有可选性~~

困惑~~还请NN现身解惑~~

另请教一个技术问题:为什么我每次法帖的时候复制粘贴了别人的字后(如此次复制粘贴了“行缘”的名字),我的字体就会变成这样(跟被复制的字体一样)了??怎么改正过来啊??操作框里没有改正的按钮~~晕!~~请技术高人赐教!~~


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-2 23:47:28编辑过]

作者: blooming529    时间: 2007-9-3 17:24
以下是引用rain119911在2007-8-31 23:23:00的发言:

10. Advertisement: For sinus pain, three out of four hospitals give their patients Novex. So when you want the most effective painkiller for sinus pain, Novex is the one to choose.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the advertisement's argument?

(A)          Some competing brands of painkillers are intended to reduce other kinds of pain in addition to sinus pain.

(B)         Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.

(C)         Many drug manufacturers increase sales of their products to hospitals by selling these products to the hospitals at the lowest price the manufacturers can afford.

(D)         Unlike some competing brands of painkillers, Novex is available from pharmacies without a doctor's prescription.

(E)         In clinical trials Novex has been found to be more effective than competing brands of painkillers that have been on the market longer than Novex.

Argument Evaluation

Situation s. An advertisement claims that Novex is the most effective painkiller for sinus pain since three out of four hospitals use it for patients.

Reasoning What paint undermines the advertisement's claim? The argument for Novex's effectiveness as a painkiller is based upon the hospitals' usage. Consider what might be driving the hospitals' choice of medications to administer. Three out of four hospitals might be giving their patients Novex not because it is the most effective painkiller for sinus pain, but because it is inexpensive. If this is the case, the argument is seriously undermined.

A          Other kinds of pain are irrelevant to the argument since the claim is only about sinus pain.

B          This point does not undermine the advertisement's claim.

C          Correct. This statement properly identifies a factor that could well undermine the advertisement's claim: the hospitals may be using this medication because it is the most cost effective for them.

D         Novex's nonprescription formula is not relevant to the claim.

E         

s

This point strengthens, rather than weakens, the claim. The correct answer is C.

这是OG的解释,但是狒狒在网络课堂中的答案是D选项,个人也认为D 〉C ,请大家赐教!~~

我觉得OG通常解WEAKEN题目的思路是,原文前提--〉原文结论,但是选项里面是另外一个前提--〉原文结论。而B是说只有在病人不能忍受常用药带来的痛楚的时候才给他们用N, 可见N既不是常用药,也不是MOST EFFECTIVE,和原文的前提和结论都无关,也谈不上WEAKEN了。至于D,那个狒狒的解释,GMAT是个能力考试,不应该用这种冷僻的文化背景专业知识作为解题依据的,这对考生来说就不公平了,根本不用想那么复杂。

个人的看法,大家继续交流,呵呵


作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-3 22:59

看来看去还是觉得C还是有漏洞~~~:(


作者: 行缘    时间: 2007-9-4 10:04
以下是引用blooming529在2007-9-3 17:24:00的发言:

我觉得OG通常解WEAKEN题目的思路是,原文前提--〉原文结论,但是选项里面是另外一个前提--〉原文结论。而B是说只有在病人不能忍受常用药来的痛楚的时候才给他们用N, 可见N既不是常用药,也不是MOST EFFECTIVE,和原文的前提和结论都无关,也谈不上WEAKEN了。

个人的看法,大家继续交流,呵呵

B的意思并不是"只有"xx情况,才推荐N,而是"当xxx情况,就推荐N", 如果基于各种药的其他比较条件相同的情况下,这一条是能够解释N在医院比别的药受欢迎的原因。

一家之言,供讨论。


作者: blooming529    时间: 2007-9-4 11:35
以下是引用行缘在2007-9-4 10:04:00的发言:

B的意思并不是"只有"xx情况,才推荐N,而是"当xxx情况,就推荐N", 如果基于各种药的其他比较条件相同的情况下,这一条是能够解释N在医院比别的药受欢迎的原因。

一家之言,供讨论。

sorry, 是我解释的时候说话不严密,应该是当病人不能忍受常用药带来的痛楚的情况,就推荐N。不是基于各种药的其他比较条件相同的情况下,这种比较是除去常用药的。既不满足受欢迎的前提,也不能推出最有用的结论。
作者: 行缘    时间: 2007-9-4 12:09
以下是引用blooming529在2007-9-4 11:35:00的发言:

sorry, 是我解释的时候说话不严密,应该是当病人不能忍受常用药带来的痛楚的情况,就推荐N。不是基于各种药的其他比较条件相同的情况下,这种比较是除去常用药的。既不满足受欢迎的前提,也不能推出最有用的结论。

从哪里推出上面highlight的这句话呢?(抱歉,找到了,我没仔细看题目,如您所说,比较是不在一个基础上的)

 


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-6 7:51:18编辑过]

作者: yetemwok    时间: 2007-9-4 12:23

D是IRRELEVANT. IN THE QUESTION, WE TALK ABOUT THE SALES OF NOVES IN HOPITAL, NOT IN PHARMACY.

THE GIVEN ARGUMENTTATION HAS A LOGICAL GAP BETWEEN ITS ONLY TWO STEP; SOME ASSUMPTION IS REQUIRED TO BRIDGE THESE TWO STEP. FIRST WEAKNESS, BUT NOT SHOWING UP IN THE ANSWERS

THEN THE SECOND POSSIBLE DEBILITATING FACTORS MAY BE THAT THERE ARE SOME OTHER FACTORS THAT COULD EXPLAIN THE MORE-THAN-AVERAGE SALES OF NOVES--THIS IS WHAT EMBEDED IN THIS STUPID, FRIVILOUS CR QUESTION.

BY THE WAY, I FLUNKED EXAM SO I HAVE TO CALL IT STUPID--MAYBE I AM STUPID


作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-6 00:02



   
                B选项中的
Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.

充分说明了一个他因,首先do not usually use 表明N药不属于常用药,其次will do so 引导了一个条件句,说明是在特定情况下使用N药,所以很多医院使用N药(在这里有一个假设就是大多数医院都有patients who cannot
            

tolerate the drug the hospitals usually
                use.) weaken了题目中的结论.

C
            
选项提供的并不是个他因,首先many不确定包括N药的公司,其次即使包括N药的公司,那么N药就跟其他药品在同一个水平线上,既然那么多医院都提供N要给患者而不是别的药品那么就strengthen了题目结论!故错!

个人见解还请大家继续探讨!


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-6 0:10:26编辑过]

作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-6 00:12
晕!!!不会用论坛的字体~~只要一粘贴就不能修改字体了!~~论坛的系统还有待完善阿!~~
作者: 行缘    时间: 2007-9-6 12:05

想了想,这题我理解错了(由于看题不仔细,),相比之下,C应该是正确答案,至少是5个中的best.

先说B.

Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.我以前认为B是它因是没有仔细看题,忘了that do not usually use Novex 这个定语从句,1)加上这个限定后,N药并不和其他药在同一个比较平台上,2)而且B还有一个漏洞,题目说(这次可要仔细看题了,): three out of four hospitals give their patients Novex, 其中的assumption应该是此医院主要给病人N药,而不是某药被病人拒绝后才给N药。3)再有,即使2)不成立,还有rain119911  说的,B成为它因的一个assumption就是拒绝many hospital's default drug的人需要很多,这有点牵强。

再说C:

Many drug manufacturers increase sales of their products to hospitals by selling.....对C的最初的怀疑来自他的many manufactures,从而认为many是对大家都平等的条件,为什么就是weaken N药而不是其他药呢?甚至象rain119911 说的应该是加强。

仔细想了一下,这里要明确一个ETS认为什么叫做"undermine" .

如果C改为, N increase sales by selling at lowest cost,我想大家都不会有异议,构成一个它因

而 many incease sales by selling...,实际上是说明了一个它因可能性.它因可能性.

而原题的推理是; 3/4的表现-> N is the best,实际推理是, N is the best是3/4表现的唯一原因

既然你认为某原因是唯一的,我提出还有一种可能性,而且你事先没有把它排出,这是不是undermine你的结论呢?

我开始也是认为这种情况不能构成weaken,但现在看来是可以的。


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-6 12:07:09编辑过]

作者: gavin1911    时间: 2007-9-6 14:34

D...不对, OTC就算都是NOVEX好了, 但是还有3/4的医院在推荐给病人用 -- 这根本无法说明NOVEX好不好

C...可以理解为NOVEX给医院的价格很低, 所以医院愿意用, 利润高啦, 并不是因为他好 -- 蛮符合现实的


作者: gavin1911    时间: 2007-9-6 14:39

rain119911 说的关于C的问题是建立在自己的一个假设的基础上: 这些生产商包括了NOVEX的竞争对手, 但是同样存在NOVEX是其中之一, 并且, 这些其他生产商都不是做这类药的呢, 这里连限定词都没有...; 所以这个假设不是太绝对;

反观其他的还是C最好, 至少是建立在某种可能假设上, 他可以削弱


作者: rain119911    时间: 2007-9-24 12:15
以下是引用行缘在2007-9-6 12:05:00的发言:

想了想,这题我理解错了(由于看题不仔细,),相比之下,C应该是正确答案,至少是5个中的best.

先说B.

Many hospitals that do not usually use Novex will do so for those patients who cannot tolerate the drug the hospitals usually use.我以前认为B是它因是没有仔细看题,忘了that do not usually use Novex 这个定语从句,1)加上这个限定后,N药并不和其他药在同一个比较平台上,2)而且B还有一个漏洞,题目说(这次可要仔细看题了,): three out of four hospitals give their patients Novex, 其中的assumption应该是此医院主要给病人N药,而不是某药被病人拒绝后才给N药。3)再有,即使2)不成立,还有rain119911  说的,B成为它因的一个assumption就是拒绝many hospital's default drug的人需要很多,这有点牵强。

再说C:

Many drug manufacturers increase sales of their products to hospitals by selling.....对C的最初的怀疑来自他的many manufactures,从而认为many是对大家都平等的条件,为什么就是weaken N药而不是其他药呢?甚至象rain119911 说的应该是加强。

仔细想了一下,这里要明确一个ETS认为什么叫做"undermine" .

如果C改为, N increase sales by selling at lowest cost,我想大家都不会有异议,构成一个它因

而 many incease sales by selling...,实际上是说明了一个它因可能性.它因可能性.

而原题的推理是; 3/4的表现-> N is the best,实际推理是, N is the best是3/4表现的唯一原因

既然你认为某原因是唯一的,我提出还有一种可能性,而且你事先没有把它排出,这是不是undermine你的结论呢?

我开始也是认为这种情况不能构成weaken,但现在看来是可以的。


牛人!~~听君一析,茅塞顿开!~~C果然是最佳选项,看来我最初的假设有些narrow~~:)大家共进!

令问个问题,OG的CR我也总结完,请问该选什么材料进行下一阶段训练?我打算还有一个月考试的时候做GWD13跟PREP,我是11月初考,所以这段时间不知道做什么好,请大家指教!:)


作者: 卡卡兔    时间: 2007-9-24 12:48

我觉得毫无疑问的应该选C。

C是典型的他因削弱。并不是疗效等其他方面的原因,而是说只是医院的利润驱使.医院开这个药不等于其有效。不管什么医疗体制,美国OR中国。在这里没有意义。题目明显说give their patients Novex。药都给病人了还说什么处方不处方呢?呵呵 大家说是吧?






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