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标题: 法律系朋友们准备grade appeal,这个case改怎么准备,很急啊 [打印本页]
作者: Ichase 时间: 2007-3-6 08:11
标题: 法律系朋友们准备grade appeal,这个case改怎么准备,很急啊
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作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-6 08:19
grade appeal ?
within the school ?
what's going on
usagiprincessofmoon(A) hotmail.com
作者: Ichase 时间: 2007-3-6 08:22
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作者: Ichase 时间: 2007-3-6 08:23
先谢谢大家,我下课后回来上线等
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-6 08:26
I dont quite understand this
did you already have a talk with the school ?
why go to court ? and legal court ? for a grade ?
never heard of
作者: ivy3997 时间: 2007-3-6 09:13
should be campus court
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-6 09:20
hmm
unless you've already talked with your dept. chair and your dean
and gotten no results, then you should go to President of the school of VP of Acda.
usually if this professor you are not happy with is a Tenered professor at the school
you have a very low chance of winning the case.
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-6 09:26
do no argue over the bases of Racial Discrimination.
it's usually hearsay, your word against his/hers. unless you can prove otherwise.
whatever you do in this case
unless you can prove you deserve this grade based on actual facts
anything else would be hearsay and usually will not be able to stand in the court of law.
good luck
作者: Ichase 时间: 2007-3-6 12:13
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作者: scicrap 时间: 2007-3-7 00:45
I doubt that you stand any chance to this grade appeal. Had you asked the instructor nicely and personally, he/she might have gotten tired of your harassment and given up. Now, there is no way the instructor is going to give in, at least I would not if I were that instructor. You were treated fairly. Just my hunch though. Still want to wish you good luck. By the way, I assume that "Tenered" is tenured.
作者: Ichase 时间: 2007-3-7 03:23
how do you know I was treaded fairly? is there some information hint this?
she did not present any evidence, just talk, blabla,
I hate that talk to someone nicely who think I am beg to give me a A. this is not my fault. I suspect my grade
作者: scicrap 时间: 2007-3-7 03:48
I just could not see any wrongdoing by the instructor here. You were not treated differently. You might say that the instructor is not a wonderful teacher. But I doubt you are in any position to point you finger at the teaching or grading methods of your instructor. Everyone in your classroom heard the same instructions, did the same homeworks, and took the same exams. You were graded against your peers. Even you believe you did "A" work but were given a "B" grade. It's still fair if the instructor only wants to give certain amount student in the class "As", and you happened to be below the cut. Sorry. I could not be much help here. I would suggest you to go low key in this case. You do not want to burn you bridges in your department. It probably will not leave a good impression to other professors. More harm than good could be done through this appeal. It is just my suggestions. There might be something that I don't know. Good luck.
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-7 08:00
以下是引用Ichase在2007-3-6 12:13:00的发言: 非常感谢xiaolongnu这个是我列出的事实,基本上没有Racial Discrimination,尽管我感觉有。这个教授不知道她Tenered or not.但我很furious.
首先扣分都是不起眼的小分,而且我问她怎么allocate the point她说
错了就扣,直到扣完,这样也可以?
of course, it is her class, she has the right to deduct points however she perferes.
下面是我letter的重要事实部分。最讨厌的是她让学生准备小抄,2页纸正反面。我觉得这点是很有力的说明,因为我没有象其他学生那样把handout的例题copy到小炒上,我写的都是我总节的概念和理论。你觉得呢。
if she has other students bring in a cheat sheet, and you didnt, then that is your own lose.
I was not satisfied with the grade of taxation class. Because the following evidence.
First there is the obvious error of grade of homework in determination of the final grade.
The first homework of chapter 1 I only got 1 point out of 4. I really can not accept it because the question did not mention it is for the tax return in 2005 or in 2006. I assumed it is the 2005 tax return because that is usually what we prepared during the previous year, no one prepares tax returns for the incoming year. I discussed it when she handed it back to me. She said maybe I am right but she did not add points back or do anything to show my understanding of this concept is attested.
when she said maybe you are right, underline message also could mean maybe you are wrong. that might even be your misunderstanding of the assignment. I do not see evidence provided above shows your professor's wrongful grading decision.
The quiz of chapter 3: there is a question I answer the same as the class she explained and she still subtract 1 point out of 5.
The review quiz of chapter 3 has 5 problems and each problem has at least 2 sub problems. Each sub problem has 2 basics points for point. I just did not mention one of this basic which is not important concept at all compared to other important taxation concept of sub problems. She subtracted 1 point. The total point only 6!
if you did not answer the basic points, regardless if you think it is important or not, is not what your professor's teaching, and with that, she could take away all the points, after all, you are taking her class.
The review quiz of chapter 3 has 5 problems and each problem has at least 2 subproblems. Each sub problem has 2 basics points for point. I just did not mention one of this basic which is not important concept at all compared to other important taxation concept of sub problems. She subtracted 1 point. The total point only 5!
Also on the 3rd tax return assignment, there are still problems. The assignment is 11 pages tax return form worth 25 points. Every American knows that how many blanks need to fill up in tax return form and also need to use right judgments to fill them in the right place. That is not easy thing. She subtracts 2 points on only one blank. I asked how you allocated these points. She said she just subtract it if you are wrong until total points are out! I also remember clearly that I checked that tax return’s key three times and make sure every blank is right filled. I was wrong because her key is wrong.
if you think you are right and her key is wrong, then prove it.
then show it to her, and see if there is any breathing room.
right now i have to ask you, are you a accounting major? if you are, then you should know here in the US, if you ever planning on being a CPA, you will have to be extra careful on handling clients' forms. regardless if it's an easy thing to do or not, if you think just because it takes a little extra time or it's diffcult to do, and not doing it because of that, this action could land you and your client in jail. (after thought) and you can lose your license.
Secondly grade assigned is contrary to formally stated on her syllabus.
On the 2nd tax return assignment, she subtracts points because I copied the name of company wrongly. Actually I got the different company’s name because I got the wrong assignment from her box on the door. It is last year’s assignments of her same class.
if you did that wrong, then why couldn't she deduct your points? you were wrong!
On the first exam, the answer was copied wrongly she subtracts 3 points. For example, the right answer is $3700 but I copied $37000 when I transferred to the answer sheet. I did the question in the right process and got the right answer on the exam paper. I told her it is not because I do not understand the taxation concept or how to calculate it. She did not concern it at all.
when you do a math problem, you got 1+1 = 2, but you were tired or just blurry, and when you were filling in the bubble on the answer sheet, you put down 3, it is still a wrong answer. i am not a accounting major, however i was a math TA for years, and when cases such as what you talked about happen, we deduct all points of the question, regardless if your processes are right. because a wrong answer is a wrong answer.
and in the future if you ever become a CPA, you could cost your client a lot of money.
I know the conception and understanding the basics why you ignore that and pay much more attention on such small pieces thing! These facts are not consistent with her syllabus in which she said
A successful student in MGMT 404 will:
1. Acquire a basic foundation in the law governing taxation of individuals, partnerships, corporations, and property transactions.
therefore, any assignments require careful attention.
4. Demonstrate computer skills through the use of professional tax preparation software.
i dont see how this is relevant.
This is cited from the instructor’s syllabus
There 3 point was missing on my participation out of 10 and I can not figure out why?
talk to her
There is a class exercise worth 10 points she did not count it in the grading.
talk to her
There is obviously wrong and funny thing when I talked to her about my grade. She said a problem which is clearly stated on the handout and textbook worth 2 point is harder than a question worth 1 point which she did not mentioned in class at all.
do not understand the case here.
Thirdly, the exam’s checklist from her class violates University policy or regulations.
One her exam’s checklist state clearly that two crib sheet both side can be prepared by us, anything that we went over and all the examples in the textbook for the material we covered in class!
I was a teaching instructor in chemistry department.
in the same school where you are taking this class?
As an instructor, it is not proper to develop students’ understanding of taxation concept that allows them to prepare such kind of crib sheet. Let us suppose if we are allowed to prepare such kind of crib sheet, some students may not even want to listen to class at all, because all the solution of examples and questions on the exam can be found on the crib sheet! They can just follow the same process formula as copied on the crib sheet and only need to do is change numbers.
you are attacking the teacher's teaching style rather than her supposetly "unfair" treatment to you.
So what is the difference with the cheating if a student has such kind of crib sheets in her/his hand in the exam? That is definitely the violation of honor code.
So what is the difference with the cheating if a student has such kind of crib sheets in her/his hand in the exam? That is definitely the violation of honor code.
some teachers simply allow cheat sheet, and some dont. it depends on the teachers.
honor code?
All these fact showed that there is not reasonable and logic grade system on her class. She did not care about students understanding of concept. What is she care about seems to be not strong to evaluate the real performance of students. In a word, any doctor, professor or student with strictly logic mind can see these holes.
The 3 things the instructor has to show if there are students suspect their grades. First that all the students better than the student get A or B. Secondly at least one student the same as or lower than the student get B. thirdly instructors have strong grading system is on the reasonable and scientific base; how many points students will get when they finished some step or got some right answers; and also you have allocate points scientifically which means the harder question worth more points than the simple one; you can not just subtract points as you want.
On the contrary she did not show any useful information or evidence that can show I deserve B except the percentage 85%. She even refused to tell me what the highest score in class is. I did not ask her who got the highest score or some other personal things. I just want to know the grade curve. She can not explain my questions with the answer which can convince me. We finished the conversation before I get the answer of all my questions, she said maybe I can talk to the dean or I can also do the grade appeal. That is what she said.
I could not find satisfied answers from her, so I wrote this letter to get convincing reasoning that can really evaluate my performance on this class without any bias.
Thanks anyone who concerns this issue
这是她的首次回复,很简短:我周三会得到她的正式回复。
Ms. Chen was treated the same as all other students in MGMT 404. Her assignments were graded using common criteria that applied to all students. She received the grade that she earned. That grade was determined using the grading scale (stated in the syllabus) that applied to all students. In this class, the nine students in the A range received grades of A. Ms. Chen and the other students in the B range received grades of B.
Ms. Chen claims inconsistency with formally stated initial criteria. MGMT 404 is a foundation class. For the student, an essential part of acquiring a foundation in taxation is learning that attention to detail is extremely important. The legal system requires that details be correct.
Ms. Chen claims violation of University policy. I am unaware of a University policy that dictates to faculty the type of assessment that must be used to evaluate student learning. I believe that it is up to the instructor to decide which type of examination best fits the course—open book, closed book, take-home, in-class, or limited materials allowed. In MGMT 404, Ms. Chen had the same opportunity as all other students to prepare materials and to consult them during the exams.
这是学校的hearing,是我们院的其他系3个professors(marcketing information 和 financing) 做陪审,还有三个研究生学生。如果我不满意这次结果还可以到学校的hearing,就不是系里的老师当陪审,是别的系了。这里再次感谢关心此事。
dont think you will win
you have no solid ground evidence to support your theroy.
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-7 8:27:19编辑过]
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-7 09:00
this can easily turn into a personal attack than an unfair treatment issue.
leave yourself some breathing room if you still want to stay in this school
作者: Ichase 时间: 2007-3-8 03:29
倍受打击,你们到底是不是法律学院的学生啊,我是问你们从我的事实里找到利于我的方面,而且她的回复一点逻辑都没有。 这么多holes不能找来一个啊。 晕 啊,打击死了,还是靠我自己,不过还是真心谢谢你们花时间来关心此事。
作者: Expert123 时间: 2007-3-8 08:52
It is very difficult to win a grade appeal.
This is a story I heard from a friend who got good grades in Mechanical Engineering until he was given a C in a class by a tenured professor. This particular professor had a history of discriminating against Asian students (Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans)/
The student had an argument other than racial discrimination. He documented everything that happened. Still, his appeal was rejected by the Dean.
In any case, I wish you very good luck.
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-8 10:57:45编辑过]
作者: Expert123 时间: 2007-3-8 08:59
Sometimes the outcome of an administrative case depends on factors other than the facts involved. Not to be too cynical, but since the administrative review of the grade cannot be appealed outside of the school, the university/dean's office has the final word. Unless the damage is so severe that it warrants media attention, there is really not much a lawyer or law student can help you.
However, the existence of the following factors may help you:
1. The professor has a poor reputation
2. The professor has a history of student complaints, especially complaints from a particular racial group. For example, if a number of minorities all filed grade appeals in the past, you will have a strong case.
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-8 10:59:59编辑过]
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-8 13:44
campus courts are different from legal court
they will still have to look at your evdience to support your theory
my suggestion
struck a deal
make a deal with the professors, btw, you are at wrong here, so there is no way you can win when you are wrong.
and they wont grant you.
because from the letter of the professor's, which you've attached, she has covered all of her ground, and you have not. therefore, make a deal. that is your best bet.
but if you go to court, then you lose your chance of making a deal and you will not win.
(look at the sections which i stated talk to her, you can argue she is negelacting your work in result of wrongful grade).
作者: xiaolongnu 时间: 2007-3-9 04:16
im actually fixing holes in your theory, that's how you can improve your case
however, like i said before, your professor has already covered her ground.
unless in your student body Consitution specifies no professor on campus can allow cheatsheet during exams of his/her class, then you have an argument ground.
however, you do not have a basic understanding of the univerisity's student body consititution as well as you do not understand how the school's system works, therefore, your case although is not doomed to fail, but it does not have a good probability.
therefore, a deal will be your best choice.
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