ChaseDream

标题: 不定式to,OG-9和885 B-19 [打印本页]

作者: gemj    时间: 2003-9-24 20:10
标题: 不定式to,OG-9和885 B-19
9.    Astronomers at the Palomar Observatory have discovered a distant supernova explosion, one that they believe is a type previously unknown to science.
(A) that they believe is
(B) that they believe it to be
(C) they believe that it is of
(D) they believe that is
(E) they believe to be of
OG对正确答案E的解释:
Choice E is best. In the context of this sentence, the infinitive to be is more appropriate than the limited present-tense is in referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been discovered only recently.
其中的referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been discovered only recently也就是说不定式在表达一个“很久以前就发生、但只到最近才发现的事情”时比较合适。但我查了两本语法书,好像也没有这样的说法。哪位大牛能为我提供关于这一点的理论依据、范例、或解释?
19.    Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.
(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother
(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother
(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother
ANSWER: B
为什么C不对?从逻辑上理解to have bothered应该是发生在seem(ed)之前,用不定式的完成形式不是很好吗?
难道是因为bothered所表达的过去的含义已经被did (not) seem已经表达了?
请各路高手指教,不胜感谢!













[此贴子已经被作者于2003-9-24 20:11:48编辑过]

作者: mzyzhu    时间: 2003-9-24 20:28
先句2 个关于to be 的例子。
Erasmus Montanus, a seventeenth-century farce written by Ludwig Holberg, both predates and resembles Moliere’s Tartuffe and is therefore thought to be one of Moliere’s sources

Because it seemed to be one of the few corporations diversified enough to survive the recession, many shareholders ignored the drop in third-quarter profits and invested even more heavily in Emco.

Balzac那题。首先表达完成时需要特定的时间指示,比如since then。其次如果你要表达完成时态,我认为应该在have not seemed to bother somebody, 而不是did not seem to have bothered.因为后者在时间关系上的逻辑混乱。






[此贴子已经被作者于2003-9-24 20:35:03编辑过]

作者: gemj    时间: 2003-9-24 23:28
以下是引用mzyzhu在2003-9-24 20:28:00的发言:
Balzac那题。首先表达完成时需要特定的时间指示,比如since then。其次如果你要表达完成时态,我认为应该在have not seemed to bother somebody, 而不是did not seem to have bothered.因为后者在时间关系上的逻辑混乱。

我是说如果表达不定式to have bothered动作发生在主句动作seem(ed)之前,用不定式的完成形式不是很好吗?


作者: mzyzhu    时间: 2003-9-25 00:07

你的逻辑没有错。但是句子是一个完整的概念。如果按照这一逻辑:不定式to have bothered动作发生在主句动作seem(ed)之前整个句子理解起来会比较的费劲:“在过去看起来以前,咖啡就使她烦。“为什么不直接说it seemed (or have seemed) to bother....

GMAT句子该错中还有一条就是“最佳”原则。相比之下,it seem to bother 比it seem to have bothered在这句话中较好。
作者: givemeahome    时间: 2003-9-25 00:37
我觉得主要是应为 coffee 对Balzac 和 Sameul的bother 上句子里是一种同时对比关系, 而have有比。。。早的意思,但这里没有这个意思和任何明显的时间符号;不知大家以为如何;
作者: dandan74    时间: 2003-9-25 05:10
"seem" here is just a link verb, it's not an action. So it doesn't make sense to make "bother" past perfect. Just like "is".
作者: gemj    时间: 2003-9-28 20:56
第9题难道无人能给予指点吗?
作者: xianwharton    时间: 2003-9-29 09:03
ers就是最佳的理论依据。你说呢,因为我们实在考ETS的GMAT。
作者: gemj    时间: 2003-9-29 09:17
xianwharton 说的极是,非常感谢!但总有一种死不瞑目的感觉啊!ETS不能任意地创造语法规则吧?
作者: sting228    时间: 2004-1-9 13:00
9
"to have done" 表示已经完成的,在什么之前的已经完成的确定的动作
"to do"表示还未发生的,现在的或者是持续不断的动作.
该提中强调"持续的"对他无效
作者: turtlechen    时间: 2004-1-10 01:34
以下是引用gemj在2003-9-24 20:10:00的发言:
9. Astronomers at the Palomar Observatory have discovered a distant supernova explosion, one that they believe is a type previously unknown to science.
(A) that they believe is
(B) that they believe it to be
(C) they believe that it is of
(D) they believe that is
(E) they believe to be of
OG对正确答案E的解释:
Choice E is best. In the context of this sentence, the infinitive to be is more appropriate than the limited present-tense is in referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been discovered only recently.
其中的referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been
discovered only recently
也就是说不定式在表达一个“很久以前就发生、但只到最近才发现的事情”时比较合适。但我查了两本语法书,好像也没有这样的说法。哪位大牛能为我提供关于这一点的理论依据、范例、或解释?


我找到一個依據,但似乎對解題沒有幫助。
在 Colins Cobuild English Grammar 提到(3.207):
下列動詞接toV時總是用被動
allege, assume, claim, consider,deem, feel, find, know...,believe, ...
他們表示言談,想法或發現時,後面常接 to be 或 to have Vpp

ex. The house was believed to be haunted.  

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-1-10 1:39:46编辑过]

作者: tianwan    时间: 2004-3-31 11:27
I also can't understand the explanation of ETS for 9. I think it is far-fetched.
作者: snow_mountain    时间: 2004-3-31 11:31
以下是引用pumpkin在2004-3-31 10:21:00的发言:

这个问题偶现在也碰到了....

偶的理解是: 在这个题目里头, to be比is在表示时间方面要好. 因为is是他们一直都这么认为, 时间概念太明确, 然而, TO BE就有模糊性, 所以这个题目里头OG说In    the    context    of    this    sentence,    the    infinitive    to    be    is    more    appropriate    than    the    limited    present-tense    is    in    referring    to    an    event    that    occurred    long    ago    but    has    been    discovered    only    recently.

请求指教!!!


正好刚刚看到这一点。大吃一惊。学了这么多年英文,居然毫无这种语感。


这题偶的理解比较单纯,explosion, the one they    believe    to    be    of a type.        定语从句, 先行词还原到定语从句结构中就是: they believe    the explosion to be of a type.....     根据believe    的两种用法: believe that     .....    和believe sth to be sth.....这里附和第二种用法。很自然的排除用限定性结构,(包括没有that, 直接用is 的结构。)我觉得MM对is 的理解有一定的道理。


不过语言有很大的约定俗成的部分,即某种结构本身就带有某种含义。最好的办法是:    记住,形成习惯性思维,直到成为语感。看到某种结构就觉得应该是这个意思。
    


作者: dreadpower    时间: 2004-3-31 12:27
     诸位真是大牛~~~语法区素来NN多~~~佩服佩服!!
作者: cocoabean    时间: 2004-4-11 12:07
thanks NN, that's I want to know.
作者: JerryGuan    时间: 2004-4-11 18:30

倒,没想到这第9题有这么多解释,偶一看到选项,就以为是:they believe to be 是个插入语,就像没看到一样,拿刀切了,扔一边,发现其他部分是瘦肉,不错不错,爽口无比。

不过,现在才发现,原来是我没理解没看懂不细心。

, the one they believe to be of a type。。。背下来嘛,有什么难的。(偶最近一直强调背一些比较好的句型、句法,呵呵)


作者: longvacation    时间: 2004-5-30 04:18
以下是引用pumpkin在2004-3-31 13:28:00的发言:

bryony GG, 多谢提醒!


作者: 心晴    时间: 2004-6-4 10:20
以下是引用pumpkin在2004-3-31 13:28:00的发言:

bryony GG, 多谢提醒!


呵呵,偶也明白了,谢谢
作者: egretxm    时间: 2004-6-5 04:44

我苦恼于第9题的that 为什么一定要去掉.

supernova explosion, one that they bielieve to be a type previously unknown to science.
这句能说它错么?

我理解: one 是explosion 的同位语, that 以后是one 的定语从句, 定语从句用that 引导怎么就多余了?


作者: egretxm    时间: 2004-6-5 05:09
那个to be 好于 is , 我认为:  is 表示现在是, 过去可能不是, was 表示过去是, 现在不是, 可这里现在是,过去也是,  所以用to be 好.
作者: 蓝色泡泡    时间: 2004-6-5 12:17

9. Astronomers at the Palomar Observatory have discovered a distant supernova explosion, one that they believe is a type previously unknown to science.
(A) that they believe is
(B) that they believe it to be
(C) they believe that it is of
(D) they believe that is
(E) they believe to be of
OG对正确答案E的解释:
Choice E is best. In the context of this sentence, the infinitive to be is more appropriate than the limited present-tense is in referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been discovered only recently.
其中的referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been discovered only recently也就是说不定式在表达一个“很久以前就发生、但只到最近才发现的事情”时比较合适。但我查了两本语法书,好像也没有这样的说法。哪位大牛能为我提供关于这一点的理论依据、范例、或解释?

ETS不是认为不定式有上述含义和用法

只是因为这里用一般现在时的话会使科学家们的研究缺乏严密性,给读者一个感觉是:  这个event是现在才发生的,甚至招来质疑:那以前呢?以前的你们就不相信了吗?或是不知道?

用了to be可以将过去,现在的时间概念模糊化,甚至包含以后,不会让读者转牛角尖

而且少了点绝对化,毕竟这里科学家只是发现一个event,而没有权利决定这个event是或不是(谁知道这中发现以后会不会被推翻,认为是错误的发现呢)


作者: tony6    时间: 2004-6-7 13:34
以下是引用gemj在2003-9-29 9:17:00的发言:
xianwharton 说的极是,非常感谢!但总有一种死不瞑目的感觉啊!ETS不能任意地创造语法规则吧?


死不瞑目在句中属用词错误,此处用不甘心比较好,虽然运语气没有原句的强,但阁大侠不能死,CD的XDJM还需要你!
作者: almarabbit01    时间: 2004-6-11 09:44
标题: help please

Can anyone tell me if it's ok if I add "that" before answer E, i.e. "that they believe to be of "


thanks




作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-6-11 16:01
9. Astronomers at the Palomar Observatory have discovered a distant supernova explosion, one that they believe is a type previously unknown to science.
(D) they believe that is
(E) they believe to be of

E is better.
First, "believe ... is ..." is too affirmative.  "is" means 100%sure., but scientists are not 100% sure of things happend so long agoand so far away.
Furthermore, "a supernova explosion" is not "a type", it is "of" a type.

作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-6-11 16:06
9. Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.
(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother
(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered

B is better, because a past event is discussed here -- either "caffeinedid bother SJ" or "caffeine did not bother SJ" , so there is no groundto use perfect tense "have bothered".


作者: xealot    时间: 2004-6-11 16:06
同意12楼pumpkin的看法;导致confused的是OG的解释,看起来OG的解释在这里语焉不详;但是另外我还有感觉,ETS热爱在类似的情况下使用不定式。需要在未来求证。
作者: 流沙    时间: 2004-7-27 13:44
以下是引用almarabbit01在2004-6-11 9:44:00的发言:

Can anyone tell me if it's ok if I add "that" before answer E, i.e. "that they believe to be of "


thanks





定语从句中的that确实可以省略。宾语从句中的that不能省略
作者: 流沙    时间: 2004-7-27 13:46

同意brony的看法。有很多用法是习惯用语,或者更prefer的用法,象believe sb to do sth。

不过后面对to be和 is的解释确实让我收获很多。


作者: egretxm    时间: 2004-8-24 03:44
以下是引用egretxm在2004-6-5 4:44:00的发言:

我苦恼于第9题的that 为什么一定要去掉.


supernova explosion, one that they bielieve to be a type previously unknown to science.
这句能说它错么?


我理解: one 是explosion 的同位语, that 以后是one 的定语从句, 定语从句用that 引导怎么就多余了?

再问!
作者: richal    时间: 2004-8-28 08:43
OG已经解释了: ONE已经充分指代前面,THAT重复指代,因此不可取.
作者: cranberry    时间: 2004-9-7 21:01
看来把它看成非限定性定语从句更好理解,one相当于which的作用。
作者: paladino    时间: 2004-9-23 09:24

如果把逗号去掉,改写成这样是不是也正确呢?

Astronomers at the Palomar Observatory have discovered a distant supernova explosion that they believe to be of a type previously unknown to science。

本题中,逗号后面是作定语从句还是非限定语从句?谁能再举几个逗号后的连接词省略的例子吗(象本题中)。


作者: wu_young    时间: 2004-10-2 07:33
是不是可以把 one 当成 which 来看,引导非限定性定语从句?如果两者完全等价的话, that 就必须去掉。
除了 one 其他名词在这种情况下是不是也可以充当同样的成分(好象在其他题里看到过,找不到了)
作者: wu_young    时间: 2004-10-2 23:35

找到例子了,OG 38
38. Scientists have observed large concentrations of
heavy-metal deposits in the upper twenty centimeters of Baltic Sea sediments, which are consistent with the growth of industrial activity there.
(A) Baltic Sea sediments, which are consistent with the growth of industrial activity there
(B) Baltic Sea sediments, where the growth of industrial activity is consistent with these findings
(C) Baltic Sea sediments, findings consistent with its growth of industrial activity
(D) sediments from the Baltic Sea, findings consistent with the growth of industrial activity in the area
(E) sediments from the Baltic Sea, consistent with the growth of industrial activity there

答案是D

感觉 finding 和 og9 中的 one 作用一样,代替which引导非限定性定语从局,指带前面整个句子。

是这样的吗,请nn指点


作者: alicely    时间: 2004-10-19 01:27
以下是引用wu_young在2004-10-2 23:35:00的发言:

找到例子了,OG 38
38. Scientists have observed large concentrations of
heavy-metal deposits in the upper twenty centimeters of Baltic Sea sediments, which are consistent with the growth of industrial activity there.
(A) Baltic Sea sediments, which are consistent with the growth of industrial activity there
(B) Baltic Sea sediments, where the growth of industrial activity is consistent with these findings
(C) Baltic Sea sediments, findings consistent with its growth of industrial activity
(D) sediments from the Baltic Sea, findings consistent with the growth of industrial activity in the area
(E) sediments from the Baltic Sea, consistent with the growth of industrial activity there


答案是D


感觉 finding 和 og9 中的 one 作用一样,代替which引导非限定性定语从局,指带前面整个句子。


是这样的吗,请nn指点


不是这样,og9中的one 引导同位语从句,是 supernova   explosion  的同位语,与og38不同


作者: longyear    时间: 2004-11-7 06:49
以下是引用alicely在2004-10-19 1:27:00的发言:


不是这样,og9中的one 引导同位语从句,是 supernova   explosion  的同位语,与og38不同



那是不是说这里 one 就相当于 that 的功能,所以如果 supernova explosion, one that they bielieve to be a type previously unknown to science,这里面 that就重复了,去掉that更简洁一些。


不过,one引导同位语从句以前没有听说过呢?


还有一种解释就是: one 是explosion 的同位语, that 以后是one 的定语从句, 定语从句用that 引导,这样是可以的。但是省略that会更加简洁流畅。而且,定语从句里面that也确实可以省略的。


哪位NN能帮助确定一下,这题我折腾了好久呢。


作者: longyear    时间: 2004-11-8 12:13
我自己顶一下。
作者: hougang    时间: 2004-11-10 21:27
不是吧,我一直记得语法都是,当that修饰的先行词在分句中做宾语的时候,that可以省略的哦。
作者: longyear    时间: 2004-11-10 21:50
谢谢hougang.
作者: ogram    时间: 2005-7-7 19:18

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19. Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.
(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother
(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother
(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother
ANSWER: B
为什么C不对?从逻辑上理解to have bothered应该是发生在seem(ed)之前,用不定式的完成形式不是很好吗?
难道是因为bothered所表达的过去的含义已经被did (not) seem已经表达了?
请各路高手指教,不胜感谢!


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我觉得C选项中did not 和have 表达重复了


其实题干想表达的意思有两种表达方式,一种是B选项的表达方式,用did not seem to bother, 另一种表达方式是do not seem to have bothered, 具体用哪一种,还要根据上下文来确定。


作者: weichenli    时间: 2005-10-3 16:26

did not 跟 have 重複? 怎麼說呢? 好像又有點說的通? 兩種表達方式也很有道理呢!


有沒有人認同或提出furthur explanation 呢?



作者: weichenli    时间: 2005-10-7 11:40

did not seem to bother ---一個層次, 單純past tense


did not seem to have bothered---兩個層次, past tense 跟 present perfect, 句子複雜性增加, 邏輯上也比較繞! 還有seem 的關係, 先bother 了一陣子, 才去seem , 句意不對


不知大家意見如何?



作者: weichenli    时间: 2005-10-12 17:15
up up~~~~
作者: tinabeauty1984    时间: 2006-3-8 14:14
up~~~~~~~`
作者: 当当84    时间: 2006-6-2 11:34

19.   Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.

(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother

(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother

(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered

(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have botheredB

(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother

 如果是把have bothered看成是一个延续性的意思哪,“caffeine看起来好像一直以来都没有困扰他”这样的解释是不是应该比b选项的 to bother 要好那?


作者: oncross    时间: 2006-7-22 12:14

I don't mean to challenge the authority, but I think choice C is better than choice B.

Here are some of my thoughts on Q.19.

1. "who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting." modifies Samuel Johnson. To parallel with "was reported to have drunk", "did not seem to have bothered" seems better.

2. Samuel Johnson died even before Balzac was born. Thus "did not seem to have bothered" correctly stated that the action of bother happened before the action seem, which is in past tense as drank ... and died... in the first part of the sentence.

19.Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.

(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother

(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother

(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered

(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have bothered

(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother


作者: xiaowan    时间: 2006-8-7 16:40
同意oncross,答案错了么?
作者: yboo    时间: 2006-8-25 23:24
以下是引用oncross在2006-7-22 12:14:00的发言:

I don't mean to challenge the authority, but I think choice C is better than choice B.

Here are some of my thoughts on Q.19.

1. "who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting." modifies Samuel Johnson. To parallel with "was reported to have drunk", "did not seem to have bothered" seems better.

2. Samuel Johnson died even before Balzac was born. Thus "did not seem to have bothered" correctly stated that the action of bother happened before the action seem, which is in past tense as drank ... and died... in the first part of the sentence.

my 2 cents:

1.  "have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting" is a whole part.  what it emphasizes is Sam's this speical experience (drinking 25 cups of tea at one sitting, sth that is out of a normal person's range), not the time sequence (this action happened before some other actions).  just like in the saying "Been there, done that."

2. - "Samuel Johnson died even before Balzac was born." - this was not mentioned at all, thus it is nonrelevant.

    - "seem" really doesnt mean anything, so it is not a comparative to other verbs. 


[此贴子已经被作者于2006-8-25 23:26:47编辑过]

作者: 盈儿    时间: 2006-9-3 12:18
以下是引用ogram在2005-7-7 19:18:00的发言:

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19. Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.
(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother
(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother
(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother
ANSWER: B
为什么C不对?从逻辑上理解to have bothered应该是发生在seem(ed)之前,用不定式的完成形式不是很好吗?
难道是因为bothered所表达的过去的含义已经被did (not) seem已经表达了?
请各路高手指教,不胜感谢!

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我觉得C选项中did not 和have 表达重复了

其实题干想表达的意思有两种表达方式,一种是B选项的表达方式,用did not seem to bother, 另一种表达方式是do not seem to have bothered, 具体用哪一种,还要根据上下文来确定。

yep, I agree with you
作者: ana9    时间: 2006-10-25 05:27
still confused with "885 B-19"
作者: elise_ying    时间: 2008-7-23 14:59

第9题是怎么看出来的啊?好几道都是这样莫名

In the context of this sentence, the infinitive to be is more appropriate than the limited present-tense is in referring to an event that occurred long ago but has been discovered only recently.
从哪里看出来的? 哪位能解答一下


作者: 美女谢    时间: 2008-8-5 09:43

     19.  Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.

(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother

(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother

(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered

(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have botheredB

(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother

还是没有理解,我觉得在第二个分句中,did no seem与从句中的was reported对应;而to have bothered与have drunk 对应,所以C应该是对的啊??

还是没有理解,我觉得在第二个分句中,did no seem与从句中的was reported对应;而to have bothered与have drunk 对应,所以C应该是对的啊??

还是没有理解,我觉得在第二个分句中,did no seem与从句中的was reported对应;而to have bothered与have drunk 对应,所以C应该是对的啊??

caffeine到说话为止都还没有bothered Samuel又有什么逻辑问题呢?

caffeine到说话为止都还没有bothered Samuel又有什么逻辑问题呢?

caffeine到说话为止都还没有bothered Samuel又有什么逻辑问题呢?

高人请指点!

高人请指点!


[此贴子已经被作者于2008-8-5 9:44:04编辑过]

作者: 美女谢    时间: 2008-8-5 14:23
我顶~!
作者: leo9    时间: 2009-6-18 10:49

感觉one是从句宾语

选项语序

one (that宾语可省去) (they believe to be) of a type...

正常语序应该是

(that宾语可省去) they believe to be one of a type...

这样理解有问题吗?


作者: gzpg    时间: 2009-9-9 20:59
(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother

画线处的关键是在not这个词,就是否定的意思。我们知道be known to have done这样的结构表done的动作发生在know之前,所以才用完成时。但这里的意思是caffeine似乎没有困扰过某某,既然困扰没有发生过,何来用过去完成时呢!





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