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标题: sec13-12想了好几天,非常感谢!!再问因果型削弱和充分必要型削弱!! [打印本页]

作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-1 23:57
标题: sec13-12想了好几天,非常感谢!!再问因果型削弱和充分必要型削弱!!

12.   A researcher studying drug addicts found that, on average, they tend to manipulate other people a great deal more than nonaddicts do. The researcher concluded that people who frequently manipulate other people are likely to become addicts.


Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the researcher’s conclusion?


(A) After becoming addicted to drugs, drug addicts learn to manipulate other people as a way of obtaining drugs.


(B) When they are imprisoned, drug addicts often use their ability to manipulate other people to obtain better living conditions.


(C) Some nonaddicts manipulate other people more than some addicts do.


(D) People who are likely to become addicts exhibit unusual behavior patterns other than frequent manipulation of other people.


(E) The addicts that the researcher studied were often unsuccessful in obtaining what they wanted when they manipulated other people.


答案A.我没有疑问.我想问D.以前NN说D错因为没有针对结论:manipulate(因)--->addicts(果) 我就是不明白,D怎么不能理解为无因有果的削弱呢? 


类似的:


137. A study of marital relationships in which one partner's sleeping and waking cycles differ from those of the other partner reveals that such couples share fewer activities with each other and have more violent arguments than do couples in a relationship in which both partners follow the same sleeping and waking patterns. Thus, mismatched sleeping and waking cycles can seriously jeopardize a marriage.


Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument above?

(A) Married couples in which both spouses follow the same sleeping and waking patterns also occasionally have arguments than can jeopardize the couple's marriage.

(D) People in unhappy marriages have been found to express hostility by adopting a different sleeping and waking cycle fro m that of their spouses.


A:我也不明白.A作为无因有果的削弱为什么不行?


我觉得这两题都是lawyer理论中的因果型削弱吧?那么,结论A-->B,非A--->B的削弱是成立的呀. 


而充分必要型削弱:结论A--->B.削弱为:A成立的情况下,B不成立.非A--->B不能作为充分必要型的削弱.但这题并不是充分必要型削弱.


作者: 顾风    时间: 2006-4-2 17:07

第一题D肯定不对,因为D无关,讨论的焦点在manipulate,而D说addict行为异常,是无关干扰项。


作者: 顾风    时间: 2006-4-2 17:13

137题答案是D吧。


137题A是无关项。因为我们讨论的是睡姿与婚姻关系的问题。而A去扯什么arguments,明显是无关项。


作者: 顾风    时间: 2006-4-2 17:15

楼主的问题是不能有效的分辩无关项。


做为这类因果题,削弱因的最好的方法,就是证明这个因有可能是果。换句话讲,就是把现象和原因颠倒了。


作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-3 11:14

作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-3 11:19

谢谢楼上的解答.


可是我还是觉得12的D不能简单的归为无关.unusual behavior patterns 就是非因,而become addicts 就是果. 无因有果的削弱,怎么不对了?



作者: 顾风    时间: 2006-4-3 12:00

我打个比方来说明这个问题吧:


比如研究者说:拉肚子的人是因为多吃苹果造成的(这个多吃苹果是研究者观察的结果)


D的意思就是:拉肚子的人除了吃苹果以外,还锻炼身体,学人家做老大什么的。


那D对结论就没有影响了,对不对,没有办法削弱它。


作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-3 15:13

你提的这个例子可以够成削弱.请看OG146


Firms adopting “profit-related-pay” (PRP) contracts pay wages at levels that vary with the firm’s profits. In the metalworking industry last year, firms with PRP contracts in place showed productivity per worker on average 13 percent higher than that of their competitors who used more traditional contracts.



If, on the basis of the evidence above, it is argued that PRP contracts increase worker productivity, which of the following, if true, would most seriously weaken that argument?



(A) Results similar to those cited for the metal-working industry have been found in other industries where PRP contracts are used.


(B) Under PRP contracts costs other than labor costs, such as plant, machinery, and energy, make up an increased proportion of the total cost of each unit of output.


(C) Because introducing PRP contracts greatly changes individual workers’ relationships to the firm, negotiating the introduction of PRP contracts in complex and time consuming.


(D) Many firms in the metalworking industry have modernized production equipment in the last five years, and most of these introduced PRP contracts at the same time.


(E) In firms in the metalworking industry where PRP contracts are in place, the average take-home pay is 15 percent higher than it is in those firms where workers have more traditional contracts.



According to choice D, many firms with PRP contracts also have modernized equipment. Since the cause of their improved productivity might be the modernized equipment, not the PRP contracts, this weakens the argument, so D is the best answer.



作者: jandjshi    时间: 2006-4-4 04:22

前几天见到lawyer大N的一个回帖, 很有启发. 削弱因果有4种方法:

1) 有因无果2)有果无因 3) 它因 4) 因果调转


[此贴子已经被作者于2006-5-29 12:01:34编辑过]

作者: 顾风    时间: 2006-4-4 11:59

og 146和og 12题不完全相同


og 12题中说 上瘾的人还表现出别的异常方式,希望以此来削弱控制欲理论。


og 146题说,那此获得的企业在contracts的同时,也同时进行了工业现代化。


我们来分析,


工业现代化是有可能获利的因素


行为异常的人容易吸毒 


(这两个因素的逻辑性)我们用反向推演法来界定它的逻辑


因为获利所以进行工业现代化是对的吗?不太符合常识。。。


因为吸毒所以行为异常是对的吗?基本正确,符合常识。。。


那换句话讲:


行为异常会吸毒,吸毒会导致行为异常。这进入了循环论证(如果不引入第三个要素的情况下)。


那说明,这个逻辑演绎得有问题,对不对?


换句话讲,D答案的错,深究起来是因为它本身的逻辑是不能被推演为合理方式的存在,所以,我们认为它是错的,不知楼上的楼上兄台理解了吗?


至于楼上说加不加only的原则,我认为加上only也是不对的,呵呵。一孔之见:)





作者: 顾风    时间: 2006-4-4 12:08
另外,注意两个题,12题没有时间因素概念,而146题有很明确的时间因素,呵呵
作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-4 17:49

作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-4 18:05

谢谢大家的答复.


请教下jandjshi,非常同意你说的必要型,充分型削弱情况.。可是我想问,对于因果型结论的削弱,是可以用无因有果的削弱方法的.见lawyer的削弱的方法分类:A它因B割断因果:有因无果或有果无因.C英国颠倒.D显示因果的资料不准确.


那么,OG137


137. A study of marital relationships in which one partner's sleeping and waking cycles differ from those of the other partner reveals that such couples share fewer activities with each other and have more violent arguments than do couples in a relationship in which both partners follow the same sleeping and waking patterns. Thus, mismatched sleeping and waking cycles can seriously jeopardize a marriage.


Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument above?

(A) Married couples in which both spouses follow the same sleeping and waking patterns also occasionally have arguments than can jeopardize the couple's marriage.

(D) People in unhappy marriages have been found to express hostility by adopting a different sleeping and waking cycle fro m that of their spouses.


这题是明显的因果型结论吧.D是用因果倒来削弱的.那么A为什么不对了?无因有果的削弱....


请指教.



[此贴子已经被作者于2006-4-4 18:06:12编辑过]

作者: lawyer_1    时间: 2006-4-4 23:37

12题。结论只是事物特性的描述,不是因果关系。因果关系应该是A引起,导致B(A cause,create B),有一个从无到有或从有到无的过程。结论中的某某有某倾向,只是特征描述,没有谁引起,导致谁的情况。故不是因果关系,也就不存在无因有果的削弱。


OG137题。原文结论的因是mismatched sleeping and waking cycles, 果是 seriously jeopardize a marriage。而选项A一部分为matched sleeping and waking cycles(无因),另一部分为have arguments(不是原文的果),注意后面为定语从句(是that,不是than)。所以也不存在你说的问题:无因有果。


作者: jandjshi    时间: 2006-4-5 06:25

谢谢lawyer对因果关系和特征描述的解释


作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-5 09:30

非常感谢lawyerGG,现在非常清楚了.还是对结论和选项没有把握好.再次感谢lawyer.


作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-11 16:32

作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-11 17:12

今天想总结下因果型和充分必要型.之前明白了,怎么又开始晕了...请教lawyerGG:


对于12题,您说不是因果型削弱.那么A选项:这个选项不就是指出了因果倒置吗?应该还是因果关系啊.不然怎么用因果倒置的削弱方法哪?


137题:(A) Married couples in which both spouses follow the same sleeping and waking patterns(无因) also occasionally have arguments that can jeopardize the couple's marriage.


今天想想,怎么感觉have arguments应该算结果呢?因为后面有个that can jeopardize the couple's marriage.说这个arguments是可以破坏婚姻的.也就是说,same pattern也可以破坏婚姻啊.不就是非因有果吗??


绕不过来了..头晕死了。.


另:OG137对A的解释: The argument does not depend on there being only one cause of marital problems, so choice A is incorrect.   似乎是说,原文推论不要求只有一个导致破坏婚姻的原因.(还可以有别的原因,对论据够不成削弱.)所以A不对.


我又不明白了,削弱里不是可以有它因削弱的吗?它因削弱当然是不止一个原因了.按照这里ETS的理论,它因削弱都不算是削弱了??这是什么道理嘛~~~


还有一个问题,因果型削弱和充分必要型削弱到底怎么区分?我感觉很多题不是有明显的cause,lead to来表示因果型,也不是有明显的if...than..来表示充分必要型...分不清,老是做错题.


还有一个不懂:这题在用词上有没有讲究?如果结论中can改为lead to,A可以构成削弱吗?还有许多人都有这个疑问:见http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=24&replyid=356703&id=43329&page=1&skin=0&Star=2



快晕死了。也不知道表达清楚了没有..谢谢lawyerGG.辛苦了!~~~~


[此贴子已经被作者于2006-4-11 17:33:17编辑过]

作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-12 13:03

顶...怎么lawyerNN也不来啊..


作者: lawyer_1    时间: 2006-4-12 22:19

打了一大堆,没能贴上。


简单说,12题没有因果关系,也就没A的因果倒置的问题,A是一般削弱。


137题。A的意思是:the same sleeping and waking patterns的夫妇偶尔有争吵。并不是说the same sleeping and waking patterns导致争吵。可能是别的原因导致争吵,即the same sleeping and waking patterns和危害婚姻的争吵没有因果关系。所以不是没因有果,削弱不了结论。


因果关系看意思,充分必要关系看有没有类似If。。。then 的指示词。


作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-13 13:00
我再顶.
作者: amber0919    时间: 2006-4-14 10:22

谢谢lawyerGG. 您说137A里没有说"导致",并没有因果关系.构成不了削弱.可是您看下一题


198.


A factory was trying out a new process for producing one of its products, with the goal of reducing production costs. A trial production run using the new process showed a 15 percent reduction in costs compared with past performance using the standard process. The production managers therefore concluded that the new process did produce a cost savings.



Which of the following, if true, casts most doubt on the production manager’s conclusion?



(A) In the cost reduction project that eventually led to the trial of the new process, production managers had initially been seeking cost reductions of 50 percent.


(B) Analysis of the trial of the new process showed that the cost reduction during the trial was entirely attributable to a reduction in the number of finished products rejected by quality control.


(C) While the trial was being conducted, production costs at the factory for a similar product, produced without benefit of the new process, also showed a 15 percent reduction.


(D) Although some of the factory’s managers have been arguing that the product is outdated and ought to be redesigned, the use of the new production process does not involve any changes in the finished product.   (C)


(E) Since the new process differs from the standard process only in the way in which the stage of production are organized and ordered, the cost of the materials used in the product is the same in both processes.



C里也没有明确的说因果关系呀.为什么可以够成削弱呢? 是不是在与结论的不同,137说can 198说did produce 也就是说137题的can说明并没有排除它因.所以A里的same patterns也可以构成破坏婚姻的条件.也就应了OG的解释:



The argument does not depend on there being only one cause of marital problems, so choice A is incorrect.



是这样吗?可是感觉对结论的用词是很难把握.



不太明白了。还请lawyerGG指点..偶天生愚昧,老是不弄不明白.麻烦您了!!谢谢..


作者: lawyer_1    时间: 2006-4-14 19:08

请细看我20楼的话。






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