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标题: 24fall mkt Rochester offer 求问几个问题 [打印本页]

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-1 21:54
标题: 24fall mkt Rochester offer 求问几个问题
刚收到Rochester mkt的offer，由于之前都是econ背景，对商学院了解较少，所以想问问大家：
1、Rochester整体大概处于什么水平呢？我感觉是tier2的学校。我看utd排名是62，不算太靠前，跟它规模比较小有关吧？
2、我主要申请的是econ（结果都还没出来，捂脸），申mkt是因为做的话题很相关，但就申了几所（可能就只有Rochester有offer）。如果以后想找教职的话，是不是去biz school更好呢？
3、我之前做的项目大概是applied micro，就是花大力气找数据，清洗数据，跑reduced reform。最近看了一些mkt的论文，好多都用到了machine learning，dynamic structural model这种，我甚至感觉比econ还要数理一些。学习这些看起来很高级的方法也是必要的吗？
感觉都是小白才问的问题，希望大家能耐心解答一下，谢谢！！

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-1 22:51
1. Rochester很好，实际上program排名应该在top20左右，不会低于top30。
2. 除非你有econ top10（甚至top5）的offer，不然找教职肯定不如Rochester Marketing
3. mkt现在reduced-form，structural，ML都用的很多。如果去Rochester，大概率jmp要做structural，技术上跟econ的empirical IO可以说是一样的。比econ里头非structural的方向（比如dev labor之类）要更需要数理和coding一点。

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-1 23:16
谢谢你！这么说来，我感觉我还撞大运了。econ top10我肯定拿不到的。看来Rochester是个好选择！

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-1 23:18
By the way, 之前看到过zz的帖子，特别有帮助。再次感谢，祝您研究顺利！

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-1 23:52
当然，具体这个项目是不是适合你，也建议多了解一下。

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-2 09:40
嗯嗯，我跟那边的老师多交流一下！

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-2 11:54

I would stay with the economics side if I can get into a top 30 economics program (that is, at least at the level of OSU or UT Texas for public schools or WUSTL or Boston College for private schools). The job market for business Ph.D.s is said to be approaching 'saturation'. Competition for faculty positions is increasingly strenuous for certain concentrations, including Strategy, Organizational Behavior and other subfields under the Management umbrella. Can you imagine what it will be like five or six years from today? Also, a Ph.D. in economics promises a wide array of career opportunities in diverse arenas. Note, for example, that some top business schools are known for having a penchant for hiring economics Ph.D.s concentrating in certain domains of research, including Fin Econ, Econometrics, and Industrial Organization.

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-2 13:52
Thank you for your answer! Good perspective! I'll wait for the results from econ programs. Then, I'll compare them and make a decision.

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-2 21:15

hhhh12399 发表于 2024-2-2 13:52
Thank you for your answer! Good perspective! I'll wait for the results from econ programs. Then, I'l ...

楼上那位对how top school works没有什么概念，建议直接忽略。

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-2 22:23

zzmypster 发表于 2024-2-2 21:15
楼上那位对how top school works没有什么概念，建议直接忽略。

I believe my point regarding the 'hiring idiosyncrasies' of some top business schools is on spot. For instance, as I know, many Finance faculty members at Booth School and Haas School are Economics Ph.D.s.

By the way, let's put aside 'professorial hubris'. Please forgive me should this sound offensive. Thank you.

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-2 22:39

Tripleg 发表于 2024-2-2 22:23
I believe my point regarding the 'hiring idiosyncrasies' of some top business schools is on spot. ...

你说的情况根本不relevant。lz比较的是marketing phd跟非top的econ。你自己看看simon mkt的placement，再看看随便哪个top10econ的placement（umich、ulca之类）。你说的top30 econ就更不用看了。

作者: raccoon_paw 时间: 2024-2-3 01:51

zzmypster 发表于 2024-2-2 22:39
你说的情况根本不relevant。lz比较的是marketing phd跟非top的econ。你自己看看simon mkt的placement，再 ...

其实他的观点在finance也不太relevant，基本只有T0 Econ系里做finance related studies的出色的学生才能place到T0/T1 finance系。比如P这种没有finance只有econ的，能place到fin的学生和他们的peer比非常明显的区别。我们系这种T0普通/T1比较好finance系candidates的target school，近年的flyouts加起来貌似就只有2个T0 ECON的，最后也都没录取。剩下他提到的什么OSU UT 的ECON PHD，基本摸不到finance的主流market。有本事卷T0 ECON然后target finance的中国学生大概率也不会来CD问问题，剩下的大概率选Fin或者其他B School majors要比ECON轻松。
如果要比所谓的strenuous，那没有哪个系不是越来越卷的，但是谁都比ECON好点。也不用扯什么可以去XXX做economist，没有T0的招牌，industry难度剧增。

作者: 卿珩 时间: 2024-2-3 06:48
楼主可以加我，可以分享有关UR的信息给你～

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-3 15:52
好的谢谢！

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-3 21:19
zzmypster: You prompted me to head to the Rochester program's website for placement information, but unfortunately I did not find any after a thorough search. The program has been traditionally fairly strong, but rumor has it that it is going downhill along the way.

A correction: I revisited the Rochester program site and did locate some alumni placements (select).

A cursory glance at the placement data for the (so-called) top 30 U.S. Economics Ph.D. programs confirms my earlier assertion that in general graduates from these programs have excellent career prospects in academia, government institutions, or the private sector. In a humble effort to ease clarifying the long-standing misunderstanding with regard to Economics Ph.D. placements, I am planning on including some of this information in the Placement Rankings.

By the way, the Umich and UCLA Economics programs never appear in the U.S. top 10 bracket in any of the rankings I have identified, among which are IDEAS/RePEc (highly influential and cited), Tilburg's Top Global 100, journal articles focusing on ranking economics departments (a few published in decent journals), and even USNews and WorldReport.

raccoon_paw: You are not a harsh critic of my posting. Thank you for your leniency. Proceeding from a job market point of view, you went beyond my arguments or claims in effect rather than counter or attack those. For instance, I pointed out that some business schools (top or otherwise), particularly their Fin Depts, have an inclination to hire Economics Ph.D.s, but did not mention how rigorous the hiring process is or how treacherous the Econ to Fin conversion is. I dare to ask if you are on job market.

By the way, I agree with you that placements of the OSU Econ program are incompatible with the faculty research reputation of the Econ Dept and so fall short of meeting the top 30 standards.

Anyone is welcome to critique my postings. Do not hesitate to slam them if one does not like them, but in doing so please do not be biased or disdainful.

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-3 23:44

Tripleg 发表于 2024-2-3 21:19
zzmypster: You prompted me to head to the Rochester program's website for placement information, but ...

突然有了烟火味

谢谢大家的讨论！我收获了很多，这个问题就到此为止吧~

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-4 00:30

hhhh12399 发表于 2024-2-3 23:44
突然有了烟火味谢谢大家的讨论！我收获了很多，这个问题就到此为止吧~ ...

Before 'your question is marked as being answered' (approximately in your own words, I guess), I want to emphasize that our chat here is far from fiery but both matter-of-factly and calm although not free from biases. I think your concern or misunderstanding is due to a culture or language barrier.

Again, congratulations on your Rochester offer and best wishes!

作者: abed 时间: 2024-2-4 00:32
提供几个并没有被提到的信息，1.Rochester的quant mkt研究实力很不错，utd排名参考价值不高2.structural model在quant mkt还是属于相对小众的领域，比较难发，主要是某几个学校喜欢做，quant现在主流应该还是reduce form, did为主，这类难点不是技术而是data。ml目前属于锦上添花。mkt这边学校tier除了传统几所顶级名校其他差不太多，但需谨慎选择研究方向。可以直接去Rochester官网看老师的CV来判断自己可以选的研究方向。

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-4 00:37

Tripleg 发表于 2024-2-3 21:19
zzmypster: You prompted me to head to the Rochester program's website for placement information, but ...

我也是懒得继续跟你说了，不过实在看不下去你在这里信口开河。
simon mkt最近几年的全部placement: delaware, unc-charlotte, google, NEU then Houston。老实说，确实没有前些年好了。
umich/ucla公认是top10-15 econ，就算是NYU,Penn这种吧，最近几年placement能到北美R1的也不到三分之一，median placement大约介于amazon跟亚洲学校中间。
我这里还没有只看其中中国人/华人的placement。要知道rochester这些placement可都是中国人/华人。

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-4 01:01

zzmypster 发表于 2024-2-4 00:37
我也是懒得继续跟你说了，不过实在看不下去你在这里信口开河。
simon mkt最近几年的全部placement: delaw ...

I am not getting a handle on what you mentioned here. I am sorry if you meant I was spewing up nonsense!

Let's respect hhhh12399's wish and shelf the discussion, which has veered too much from her/is original query.

作者: 古天乐 时间: 2024-2-4 03:51
Any Econ student that can get an offer from Rochester Biz School so early is very likely to be offered by a top 20 private Econ PhD program and Top 10 public Econ PhD program.

From the perspective of academic placement in North America, it would be very very hard for Chinese Econ PhDs from any top 15-30 programs to beat Chinese Biz PhDs from any programs at Rochester level.

However, to my perspective, if your career goal is in Mainland China and you have the so-call prestigious school fantasy, it's better to go to any top 18 Econ PhD programs, including:
8 ivy league schools+ 6 private non-ivy league giants (Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Northwest, NYU, Duke) + 4 Public Giants (UC Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Virginia)

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-4 05:47

古天乐发表于 2024-2-4 03:51
Any Econ student that can get an offer from Rochester Biz School so early is very likely to be offer ...

I just thought that the discussion had now been put to rest. Now that you were following up, I could not hold back the temptation to chime in. Based on all the Economics program/department rankings that I could get hands on, I have no doubts (at least for now) that Berkeley, Umich, and UCLA rightfully command the top three spots in your '4 Public Giants' group. Which program is the fourth is really in the beholder's eye; notwithstanding, Virginia does not seem to measure up to the distinction. I might be wrong for lack of conclusive evidence.

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-4 07:00

古天乐发表于 2024-2-4 03:51
Any Econ student that can get an offer from Rochester Biz School so early is very likely to be offer ...

Again, another outsider take. UCSD, UWM, and UMN are clearly above Virginia and Dartmouth in your "Top18" list. Brown is also close to the bottom of the top 20, if at all.
The bar of Rochester B-school may surprise you. I won't be surprised if OP doesn't get any offer from top20 econ.

作者: 古天乐 时间: 2024-2-4 09:42

Tripleg 发表于 2024-2-4 05:47
I just thought that the discussion had now been put to rest. Now that you were following up, I cou ...

Totally agree.I simpley selected top public Econ programs from owners of the world wide famous S16 Biz schools

作者: 古天乐 时间: 2024-2-4 09:47

zzmypster 发表于 2024-2-4 07:00
Again, another outsider take. UCSD, UWM, and UMN are clearly above Virginia and Dartmouth in your ...

Totally agree.
Sometimes I'm just so amazed that how Chinese people are so obsessed with US ranking, QS ranking when evaluating a Biz phd program.

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-5 02:48

古天乐发表于 2024-2-4 09:42
Totally agree.I simpley selected top public Econ programs from owners of the world wide famous S16 ...

I am curious as to what S16 is all about.

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-5 03:00

zzmypster 发表于 2024-2-4 07:00
Again, another outsider take. UCSD, UWM, and UMN are clearly above Virginia and Dartmouth in your ...

By the way, the Dartmouth Econ Dept does not offer a Ph.D. program (nor a Master's). With respect to research, Dartmouth Econ is overrated at RePEc (probably thanks to their idiosyncratic ranking methodology). As a matter of fact, Dartmouth does not make it to Tilburg's Global Top 100 Economics Department Research Rankings (more than 40 from the U.S.).

It's time that the conversation on Econ programs be closed for now.

作者: 古天乐 时间: 2024-2-5 05:34

Tripleg 发表于 2024-2-5 02:48
I am curious as to what S16 is all about.

It's about the worldwide fame of business schools
HSW: Harvard, Stanford, Wharton
Magic7: HSW plus, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, Northwest,
Super16: Magic7 plus Yale, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, NYU, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Virginia

For example, many of my Chinese friends with master's degree from US universities only know that Michigan and Virginia are very top universities and almost all their programs are very competitive.
However, they don't know that business and economic programs in some top public universities such as Minnesota, Wisconsin and Mayland are also very competitive too. They deem them as average public flagship public universities.

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-5 14:07

abed 发表于 2024-2-4 00:32
提供几个并没有被提到的信息，1.Rochester的quant mkt研究实力很不错，utd排名参考价值不高2.structural mo ...

谢谢！请问“谨慎选择研究方向”出于什么考虑呢？是哪些方向不容易出成果吗？

作者: Tripleg 时间: 2024-2-5 22:48

hhhh12399 发表于 2024-2-5 14:07
谢谢！请问“谨慎选择研究方向”出于什么考虑呢？是哪些方向不容易出成果吗？ ...

While I am not knowledgeable about your concentration, abed's comment sounds very professional, informative, and down-to-earth.

Again, I would recommend that you stay with the economics camp should you be admitted to a decent economics program.

作者: zzmypster 时间: 2024-2-5 23:11

hhhh12399 发表于 2024-2-5 14:07
谢谢！请问“谨慎选择研究方向”出于什么考虑呢？是哪些方向不容易出成果吗？ ...

大概意思是hardcore structural做起来技术性很强，周期很长，不好发paper，好处是相对不依赖数据。reduced-form做起来和发起来要快一点，但严重依赖数据和/或独特的research design。这些一般是进program之后才需要考虑的事情，但是Rochester的program有一点“偏科”，他们faculty大都是做structural的，因此他们的优势可能是在技术上，而不一定在数据等资源上。这些对于上market乃至于后面tenure都会有不同的影响。

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-5 23:59

Tripleg 发表于 2024-2-5 22:48
While I am not knowledgeable about your concentration, abed's comment sounds very professional, inf ...

Thank you!

作者: hhhh12399 时间: 2024-2-5 23:59

zzmypster 发表于 2024-2-5 23:11
大概意思是hardcore structural做起来技术性很强，周期很长，不好发paper，好处是相对不依赖数据。reduce ...

明白啦~ thanks!

作者: jenny..lu 时间: 2024-2-8 19:42
同拿到Rochester bschool offer，但是是OM track，現在在糾結中～（我是主申IE）

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