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标题: 真的有like that which这种用法吗？？【手动黑人问号脸 [打印本页]

作者: 上汤胡萝卜 时间: 2016-11-12 18:22
标题: 真的有like that which这种用法吗？？【手动黑人问号脸

Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart had receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation of the kind that has plagued Argentina for the past two decades.
A. had receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation of the kind that has plagued Argentina for the past two decades
B.had receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation as it has plagued Argentina for the past two decadesB
C.receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, just as it has plagued Argentina for the past two decades
D.has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, like it has plagued Argentina for the past two decades
E.has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, like that which has plagued Argentina for the past two decades

recede之后没有明确的过去时所以排除AB, 然后我就用like不能接句子直接排除了DE，选了C

答案说CD的问题出在it的指代问题，如果是比较xx plague xx，前面没有与之对应的逻辑，it也无所指代所以错，而且receded也没有has receded好，完成时可以强调对现在的影响。

正确答案是E，但是这个like that which的用法实在是好诡异。。

求NN解释一下like that which 的结构呀！！TOT

作者: Jagabee 时间: 2016-11-15 09:41
这道题的出处楼主能说下吗？

语法上是没有错误的. like表对比后面接名词. That作代词指代prolonged stagnation, 但不能standalone, 所以后面加了个which引领的定语从句来修饰that.

至于这里为什么要用that不用it, 我不觉得是it找不到指代词的问题, 而是prolonged stagnation in trade zone 和prolonged stagnation in Argentina是两个概念, 这两个概念的正是对比的核心, 用it的话则是把两个概念合二为一.

我造了个不同的句子来说明it的指代：The prolonged stagnation in Russia accelerated the instability within the financial market last year, just as it did in 1995. 个人认为这种情况是可以使用it, 因为prolonged stagnation概念一致, 对比的是同一事件发生的不同时间.

作者: 上汤胡萝卜 时间: 2016-11-15 15:57

Jagabee 发表于 2016-11-15 09:41
这道题的出处楼主能说下吗？

语法上是没有错误的. like表对比后面接名词. That作代词指代prolonged stagna ...

谢谢解答呀！我才发现我好像理解错了，不是it无所指代。。而是it指代的东西不能构成正确的comparison！！_(:зゝ∠)_

是在veritasprep上面模考的题目~ 网站上给出的解释是这样的，直接贴过来了：

Explanation: The easiest decision point on this question relates to the tense. The past perfect “had receded” is illogical in (A) and (B). There is nothing before which the fear receded! It could either have been completed at some point in the past (using the simple past receded), or more likely given the context of this sentence, be ongoing with the present perfect (has receded). In (C) and (D) the “it” is problematic as it creates a reference error – the pronoun seems to be referring back to the risk, when the goal is to compare the current stagnation with that in Argentina. Only (E), uses the logical tense “has receded” and uses “like” to make it clear that the comparison is between the possible prolonged stagnation in this cases, with the stagnation that took place in Argentina for the past two decades. Answer is (E).

然后对你举的那个例子有一点疑惑，pronoun指代的时候必须和先行词逻辑语法上都一致，但是逻辑上讲应该是不同时间的两次stagnation？可以直接用it吗

作者: 上汤胡萝卜 时间: 2016-11-15 15:59

Jagabee 发表于 2016-11-15 09:41
这道题的出处楼主能说下吗？

语法上是没有错误的. like表对比后面接名词. That作代词指代prolonged stagna ...

所以这个like that which中，that应该是指代前面的prolonged stagnation，which引导的定语从句，like引导comparison！不知道这样理解对不对~

作者: Jagabee 时间: 2016-11-15 19:40

上汤胡萝卜发表于 2016-11-15 15:57
谢谢解答呀！我才发现我好像理解错了，不是it无所指代。。而是it指代的东西不能构成正确的comparison！！ ...

1. Veritasprep还有OG的解释都会时不时把代词指代不清作为解释的理由, 但我是认同Manhattan Prep的Ron的说法, 几乎不将指代不清作为排除的理由. 所以我个人不认为it在这道题里会有指代risk的嫌疑, 因为risk不能plague argentina, prolonged stagnation (长期经济低迷）才是困扰argetina长达20年的原因.

你会时不时看到有些题目的正确选项, 包含的代词虽然与其先行词的位置不对应, 依然可以通过句意无异议指代.

2. 我先前举的例句: The prolonged stagnation in Russia accelerated the instability within the financial market last year, just as it did in 1995.

我个人认为it可以成立, 因为it在这里指代的是the prolonged stagnation in Russia, 而不是the prolonged stagnation in Russia last year.

3. 这道题你会觉得哈雷彗星在不同的historical sighting是不同的哈雷彗星么? 虽然这个像是个哲学问题.

In no other historical sighting did Halley's Comet cause such a worldwide sensation as did its return in 1910–1911.
A did its return in 1910–1911  分析A选项
B had its 1910–1911 return  分析B选项
C in its return of 1910–1911  分析C选项
D its return of 1910–1911 did  分析D选项
E its return in 1910–1911  分析E选项

正选为C. 使用its没问题.

4. 最后补充一下, 你觉得两个时期的事物要分开对比的做法, 有时是必要的. 我能想到相关的是下面这道题:

Today's technology allows manufacturers to make small cars more fuel efficient now than at any time in their production history.

a. Same as above
b. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than they were at any time in their
c. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than those at any other time in
d. more fuel-efficient small cars than those at any other time in their
e. more fuel-efficient small cars now than at any time in

正选为E, A-D中的their会造成你说的问题, 将两个时期不同的car混为一谈。但这是因为 their 在这里指代的不仅仅是small cars，也不是small cars that are more efficient，而是small cars that that satisfy the comparison given.

作者: Jagabee 时间: 2016-11-15 19:41

上汤胡萝卜发表于 2016-11-15 15:59
所以这个like that which中，that应该是指代前面的prolonged stagnation，which引导的定语从句，like引导 ...

我认为是对的

作者: 上汤胡萝卜 时间: 2016-11-15 21:21

Jagabee 发表于 2016-11-15 19:40
1. Veritasprep还有OG的解释都会时不时把代词指代不清作为解释的理由, 但我是认同Manhattan Prep的Ron的 ...

好认真的回答！！

认同你的第一点！RON和veritas都的确强调过pronoun只有两个判断方法：
1）有无先行词
2）是否满足agreement
所以这里it不对还是因为逻辑上改变了原句的意思而不是risk和stagnation的指代不清！！！

但是你的例子不是正好证明了代词是只能指代同一个个体的呀！哈雷彗星只有一颗所以每一次出现的都是它所以可以用its代替。但是cars和你之前例子里面的stagnation都已经随着时间的变化不一样了，所以不能用it或者them、their指代。所以我还是觉得那个例子不太对~求轻拍！！

作者: Jagabee 时间: 2016-11-16 05:25

上汤胡萝卜发表于 2016-11-15 21:21
好认真的回答！！

认同你的第一点！RON和veritas都的确强调过pronoun只有两个判断方法：

哈哈, 谢谢你分享的问题，让我也可以整理我的思路. 一家之言, 欢迎指正.

我认为我例子中的prolonged stagnation in Russia就是同一个个体, 只不过它在去年和1995年都发生了一次. 而Car的例子, 则是历史上曾经生产的car，和现在更fuel-efficient的car，是分两批出来的.

再给你两个我看到的原题正选例子:

1. A large rise in the number of housing starts in the coming year should boost new construction dollars by several billion dollars, making the construction industry's economic health much more robust than it was five years ago.
it指the construction industry's economic health

2. In the 1980's the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970's.
it 指the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States

除了我之前提到的more fuel-efficient cars, 你是否有看到过其它，随着时间变化而必须承认主体已经变化的例子呢?

作者: 上汤胡萝卜 时间: 2016-11-16 09:02

Jagabee 发表于 2016-11-16 05:25
哈哈, 谢谢你分享的问题，让我也可以整理我的思路. 一家之言, 欢迎指正.

我认为我例子中的prolonged sta ...

谢谢你让我这个懒癌晚期回去把自己整理的笔记从头看了一遍【笑cry，突然发现我从来没有自己尝试把问题想的这么清楚先看到了prep08上的这个例子

1. Sales of wines declined in the late 1980s, but they began to grow again after the 1991 report that linked moderate consumption of alcohol, and particularly of red wine, with a reduced risk of heart disease

就在想会不会类似于rate、population、price、sales这种连续变换没有办法被时间割裂的名词才可以直接指代。

但是又看到了第二个：

Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, the discus used in track competition is now lined with lead around the perimeter, thereby improving stability in flight and resulting in longer throws.

两个discus在经过设计的更改后肯定不是同一个，但是还是可以用its来指代，所以你应该是对的！大概是不存在时间变化的问题的。

另外找到了两个必须替换的例子，语法上都是因为前后单复数不符合所以不能直接用代词替换
这又归到了RON的pronoun两大铁律：是否有所指代
但是不太清楚逻辑上是不是能说的通，毕竟4.里面的两个civilization肯定是不能等同的。

3. OG13 VERBAL 的Q22
Japanese researchers are producing a series of robots that can identify human facial expressions and then respond to them; the researchers’ primary goal is to create a robot that will empathize with us.
4. OG13 Q89
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

作者: Jagabee 时间: 2016-11-19 12:52

上汤胡萝卜发表于 2016-11-16 09:02
谢谢你让我这个懒癌晚期回去把自己整理的笔记从头看了一遍【笑cry，突然发现我从来没有自己尝试把问题想的 ...

哈哈确实是自己整理的比别人整理的理解深刻些不然看着别人写的当时好像理解了回头又有很多疑问

我和你看法一样, 你举得例子3/4除了单复数不符合的原因, 也是句意要求

3 - 日本研究家已经在生产一系列能够辨别人类表情的机器人; 他们主要目标要创造出的, 是一种能和人类感同身受的机器人. 这两种机器人很明显定义, 能力, 和存在的时间都不一样, 所以指的并不是同一种不可用代词.

4. 确实两个civilization不同

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