ChaseDream
标题: RON神课堂上的一道题目请教 关于Ving修饰 [打印本页]
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-5 16:34
标题: RON神课堂上的一道题目请教 关于Ving修饰
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.
A most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling
这道RON神课堂上的题目 答案是C 对前面 at least as large as Jupiter没疑问 想问下后面的 ,circling 的几个问题：
1. ,circling为什么没有歧义去修饰主句的astronomers have detected，记得prep笔记上有题目就是句末有 comma+v_ing, 笔记说会有修饰主句是歧义
2. Ron神说了这么一段话[attach]188162[/attach]
后两段话的意思是不是说circling作定语修饰 的是 80 massive planets？？难道可以跳过插入语去作定语修饰吗？？？
看来之前的帖子有点说是独立主格，circling修饰most of them
那么这道题到底怎么解释呢？请NN指教
作者: lfzlxm 时间: 2016-10-5 16:46
1.因为astronomers have detected显然是不能circling other stars的啊，逻辑上压根就不通，所以不存在歧义
2.什么表语定语状语补语啥的不太懂= = 爱莫能助了
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-6 01:32
根据曼哈顿笔记的说法，comma -ing结构做adverbial modifier，修饰主句。
楼主提到absolute phrase，记得Ron写过，独立主格通常是noun ＋modifier，用来补充说明主句，通常包含重要信息，但又不影响主句结构。比如：The train running late, we decided to get off at the next stop and take a taxi home.
有时候，独立主格可以没有noun，单独作为modifier存在。就如题中circling other stars。
我认为：
1. comma －ing ＝ 状语从句，修饰主句。
2. 当comma －ing修饰一个noun的时候，它就是独立主格。有一点需要注意：一般独立主格部分的noun可以是主句中没有出现过的词。我觉得，主句中出现过的词作为独立主格中noun被一个noun modifier修饰的时候，为了简洁这个noun通常省略，只要不会引起ambiguity。
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-6 09:27
先感谢啊 但是根据你的回答还有几个地方不明白
1.也就是说cirlcling是独立主格结构，他的NOUN是80 massive planets,然后因为重复被省略了？？
2.但是你最开始说的 “根据曼哈顿笔记的说法，comma -ing结构做adverbial modifier，修饰主句。”
如果是修饰主句的话，这里主句是 astronomers have detected XXXXXXX. 那circling不就成了修饰have detected，而且做伴随状语的话要逻辑主语一致的吧？不可能是astronomers circle吧？
3. 但是我根据RON那些绿色的回复判断 Ron的意思就是说circling在修饰80 massive planets，那请问circling有没有可能跳过插入语去修饰80 massive planets呢
感谢！
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-6 11:22
看了各种NN的说法，我已经晕了。
结论是comma －ing大多情况是状语
本题中这种形式，也是允许的，修饰一个名词（宾语）。
本题中的形式应该不是独立主格。
或者ETS出题有问题？问了老外具体语法他们也说不上来，但是看到都认识。
不要纠结了……
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-6 11:43
http://www.beatthegmat.com/among-lower-paid-workers-union-members-are-less-likely-t275992.html
刚发现那一道题，Generally, the agent of a COMMA + VERBing modifier is the nearest preceding subject or implied subject. 原来要修饰离他最近的句子 并不一定是主句
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-6 13:21
行星绕着其他星星转那个句子写的不好，容易引起歧义。
你给的国外网站这个：医生少花时间，就很明白，不会有误解。
‘anyway，这个哥们说的对：
There is no strict rule that such a modifier always modifies the subject of the previous clause. On GMAT such modifiers mostly modify the subject of the previous clause(or entire clause when expressing result)but that can't be a rule.
The correct usage is as follows:
An end modifier introduced by a present participle and separated by commas mostly modifies
(i) the subject of previous clause
(ii)the whole clause, if it is expressing result
(iii) may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause. Such a construction is considered correct.
To select the correct antecedent you need to consider the meaning. If you find a logically connected noun referent, that's all correct.
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-6 15:54
恩，星星这道题这里应该就是第三种情况吧
不过里面那个哥们给的例子我不太明白：
United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic Party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.
(A) that included
(B) which includes
(C) including
(D) some of which were
(E) among them being
including可以跳过这么远去做定语修饰posts吗？？
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-6 16:33
虽然距离有点远，但是五个选项中最好的。
对post修饰的部分实在太多了，没办法了。
within the Democratic Party during his first term如果放在including那句后面就更远了。
另外，including在字典中查到可以做prep词性。最自然最常用最简洁的用法。读多了句子应该能凭语感看出including吧。
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-6 16:48
恩十分感谢！
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-7 14:33
不好意思 又有一个问题
想问下是否存在这样的省略用法：Although I get up early, still going to work late.
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-7 18:45
不行。
注意，although是一个连词，连词连接两个有特定关系的句子。这两个句子必须有完整的结构。
如果想省，getting up early, I still went to work yesterday.
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-10 08:34
做OG分册的时候做到这么一道题
Reporting that one of its many problems had been the recent extended sales slump in women's apparel,the seven-store retailer said it would start a three-month liquidation sale in all of its stores.
A its many problems had been the recent
B its many problems has been the recently
C its many problems is the recently
D their many problems is the recent
E their many problems had been the recent
想请问下recnet这个考点
the recent extended sales slump
the recently extended sales slump
这两个去区别在哪呢
语感不好感觉这两个意思没区别
OG上解释说 "recently" suggests illogically that the sales slump had been recently extended.
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-11 00:14
你觉得 extended是什么意思？
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-11 08:32
扩大的、增加的 ？ 最近扩大的销售下降？
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-11 09:48
recently表示最近已经完成，强调完成时，一次性的动作。
如果用recently，修饰extended，就强调了最近有一次销售下滑程度的扩大。
句子中应该不是想强调extended而是强调slump，所以后面retailer才要采取行动吧。
如果考点是这个，那是语意上的东西了，估计710分以上的题。
如果不理解，就先用其他语法排除错误选项吧。
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-11 10:45
thanks懂了 看来语义还是很重要啊
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-13 17:32
问一道老题目....
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang like socks on a clothesline.
A saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang
B saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs were hanging
C saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
D seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
E seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs have hung关于E中为什么whose不能跳过 on the branches修饰monkeys的问题，翻了manhanttan的论坛 没找到太理想的解释
Ron说过可以跳过修饰
importantly, in this sort of structure (NOUN1 + prep + NOUN2 + THAT..., or NOUN1 + (modifier ending with NOUN2) + THAT...), the "that"-modifier can actually modify either NOUN1 or NOUN2.
搞不懂了 原来越糊涂 难道有with比whose更好才选D？
作者: Owen'sDaddy 时间: 2016-10-14 01:26
Ron说的这种情况是允许存在，但不是最佳。
如果whose会引起歧义，那肯定就错。除非到了700以上难度较高的题，是允许瑕疵选最优选项，其他简单题看到whose之前两个名词直接就排除了。
另外，猴子的手和腿挂在树上不需要使用完成时态吧。
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-21 17:14
Independent contractors pay higher taxes and paid less consistently than are statutory employees, but they, unlike statutory employees, are freely allowed to perform the same type of work for multiple businesses
A. taxes and paid less consistently than are statutory employees, but they, unlike statutory employees, are freely allowed to
B. taxes and are paid less consistently than statutory employees; unlike statutory employees, though, independent contractors are free to
C. taxes, are paid less consistently than statutory employees, and, unlike statutory employees, they may freely
D. taxes and are paid less consistently than are statutory employees; in addition, unlike statutory employees, independent contractors can freely
E. taxes and paid less consistently than are statutory employees; moreover, unlike statutory employees, they are allowed to
请教一道manhattan模考里的题目，答案是B，其他地方没有问题， 就想请问下分号后面不应该是加完整的句子吗？ 而B选项分号后面只是一个though引导的从句，没有主句。为什么这样？还是说这里有省略？
翻了manhattan论坛 照的这么一句解释 ：
Like cats, dogs are pets; Unlike cats though, dogs require constant attention.
[size=14.007px]难道这里B选项里的though是做副词吗
作者: Bradz 时间: 2016-10-21 22:27
在多说一句，希望对你有帮助。
extended在这里可以有两种意思的可能。一是扩大的，修饰销售下降越来越大；二是时间上拉长的，修饰之前就有的销售下降还在延续（并暗示以前以为不会持续这么久）。
从语感上来讲，recent适用于第一种解释，recently适用于第二种解释。
作者: Bradz 时间: 2016-10-21 22:34
为什么说independent contractors are free to perform the same type of work for multiple businesses不是主句，只能是从句呢？
作者: Bradz 时间: 2016-10-21 22:45
你说that离posts远，但是其实对理解这个句子不带来任何影响。
我知道在gmat的范围内，有可能说它ambiguous，但是从真实生活中，这句话就没有问题。gmat只是一个考试，为了应试就硬套他的规则好了。但是你考gmat是为了去英语国家，能够听懂说明白是最重要的，不管是在商学院还是工作，语言都是服务沟通的，沟通都是服务工作学习的。沟通的最主要目的就是明确地表达自己的意思和领会别人的意思，但，这就足够了，谁还会去管gmat的规则，甚至谁还会去管语法是否真正精确呢？
昨儿看了美国大选的现场讨论，可能因为最近在看gmat，会心想这句话trump的语法完全不对吧？即使hilary的有些表达也不能完全符合gmat的规则，但是，who cares？让人听懂了，就是最重要了
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-22 08:49
因为有though啊，当时我以为though只能做连词，而连词后面又不可能只跟个介词短语 unlike statutory employees，所以当时觉得这句话应该是though independent contractors are free to XXXXXXX，昨晚翻manhattan论坛才意识到though也可以做副词。
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-22 09:01
那请问这道题A选项问题处在哪呢？
我觉得within the Democratic Party是修饰posts的，而during his first term则是修饰was appointed的
即 posts（within the Democratic Party ）during his first term, that included
此时that不能跳过during his first term去修饰posts，但是如果没有during his first term
posts within the Democratic Party that included
that跳过 within the Democratic Party去修饰posts是完全问题的。
个人愚见 欢迎指正
United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic Party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.
(A) that included
(B) which includes
(C) including
(D) some of which were
(E) among them being
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-22 09:02
ｔｈａｎｋｓ
作者: Bradz 时间: 2016-10-22 10:34
我之前的回复的意思就是说A其实也没有问题，对理解这个句子的含义没有影响。gmat会判它错，就是因为gmat有一个非常rigid，比我们日常使用更rigid的规则。这里including比that included，相比之下，更没有分歧（毕竟你还是可以argue说that是接着term的，虽然这么argue很明显是鸡蛋里挑骨头），所以选including。就是99输给了100的道理。
补充一点，你说“posts within the Democratic Party that included，that跳过 within the Democratic Party去修饰posts是完全问题的”，我同意。但是举个反例。"Tom is the leader of a music band, that also inlcudes Jerry, Bill and Philip" 你说这句话的意思是“这个乐队里面有四个成员内，其中tom是leader”呢？还是”这个乐队有四个leader“？肯定是前者，因为冠词”the“，所以这里that就不能跳过了。因此，我觉得寻找一个一成不变的非常rigid的规则，不如去理解这个句子，去选择最适合、最清晰、最简洁的代表作者说法的选项。
作者: 渣渣要考gmat 时间: 2016-10-22 11:19
对 我同意你的说法 语义是最重要的 要明白作者想要表达什么意思 然后去选择最清楚简洁的表达方法
但是关于that跳跃代指的问题 我的意思其实是 在句子语义需要的情况下 可以做有一些跳跃代指 这也并不是一个绝对规则 一切以语义为核心。
作者: Bradz 时间: 2016-10-22 11:27
是的，我同意，甚至可以说这种跳跃大部分情况下是不会制造歧义的，gmat的很多规则，考完了就可以忘记了，哈哈。
| 欢迎光临 ChaseDream (https://forum.chasedream.com/) |
Powered by Discuz! X3.3 |