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标题: 顶级难题 天山-4-38 NN们无法统一意见。继续讨论! [打印本页]

作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-8-15 13:44
标题: 顶级难题 天山-4-38 NN们无法统一意见。继续讨论!
天山-4-38

In one state, all cities and most towns have antismoking ordinances. A petition entitled “Petition for Statewide Smoking Restriction” is being circulated to voters by campaign workers who ask only, “Do you want to sign a petition for statewide smoking restriction?”  The petition advocates a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public.



Which of the following circumstances would make the petition as circulated misleading to voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide?



A. Health costs associated with smoking cause health insurance premiums to rise for everyone and so affect nonsmokers.



B.   In rural areas of the state, there are relatively few retail establishments and government offices that are open to the public.



C.   The state law would supersede the local antismoking ordinances, which contain stronger bans than the state law does.



D. There is considerable sentiment among voters in most areas of the state for restriction of smoking.



E.   The state law would not affect existing local ordinances banning smoking in places where the fire authorities have determined that smoking would constitute a fire hazard.


主要争议在答案B还是C之间。若想了解过去NN们的更多的讨论,请参见下面的连接!


http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=24&replyid=84938&id=84938&page=2&skin=0&Star=1


支持选项C的代表人物:大名鼎鼎的 mindfree;无名小卒 howardwang 等等


支持选项B的代表人物:鼎鼎大名的lawyer_1   隐携 等等


下面我从自己的理解出发,探讨为什么C正确,然后指出为什么B不正确。欢迎批评指正!


C正确的理由:


(1)谁被误导?


所谓误导,如果把申请书签名理解为是投票的话,就是 voters 本来想投赞成票的,却因误导而投了反对票,或者相反。特别提醒:voters用限定性定语从句who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide修饰,也就是who引导的从句中的voters被误导。这是本题的解题的关键,类似于推理结论中的具体性和特殊性。


(2)为什么会被误导?


其一:voters are asked only,“Do you want to sign a petition for statewide smoking restriction?”。因为问法并没有具体说明smoking restriction是什么,只是使用了一个笼统的感念smoking restriction。这是造成误导的主要原因。


其二,被误导的voters 必然不知道smoking restriction的具体内容( The petition advocates a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public. )是什么。因为如果知道了,在本题范围内就不会被误导。


(3)怎样才会被误导?


因为是将这个申请理解为是将当地的禁烟法令推广到全州的voters(voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide)的误导,所以,要误导voters,则必须使The petition advocates 的州法规(a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public. )与 voters所在当地的原来的相关法规有所不同。只有这样,voters才会被误解。


(4)为什么答案C正确?


C.   The state law would supersede the local antismoking ordinances, which contain stronger bans than the state law does.


阴影部分刚好说明了州法律和地方法律的不同。试想,如果voters(who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide),而实际的州法只是The petition advocates a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public. 因为实际的州法与地方法(voters认为的州法)是有程度差别的(local antismoking ordinances contain stronger bans than the state law does)。无论是烟民还是非烟民,都可能被误导。


B 为什么不对呢?


1)从题干In one state, all cities and most towns have antismoking ordinances.可以看出,In rural areas of the state 可能没有local ordinances(虽然不必然)。在此环境下,也就无所谓使voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide误解。



2)选B的另一个理由是,“Do you want to sign a petition for statewide smoking restriction?”让人误解为是在全州范围内禁烟限制,似乎是说,全州禁烟。如果这样(且不考虑voterswho understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide的限制,因为,选B时,似乎不关注who引导的从句的限制),所有的人都可能被误导。无所谓乡下人还是城里人了。







[此贴子已经被作者于2005-8-15 13:58:57编辑过]

作者: PHDman    时间: 2005-8-15 20:03
我也认为是C正确,因为被问的人根本不知道法令的内容所以B的内容根本不会在被问的人考虑范围内。
作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-8-16 17:21
原来参与讨论的NN几乎都从CD仙迹已逝了,所以,特别希望大家多发表发表自己的见解。
作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-8-17 16:48

看来,从原讨论的链接来看,支持选C的人越来越多了。我们的队伍在壮大阿。


不过,我们也希望听到不同的声音。


OPEN TO DISCUSS


作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-9-20 16:55
up
作者: shiningshining    时间: 2005-9-20 19:06

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[此贴子已经被作者于2005-9-22 16:49:27编辑过]

作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-9-20 20:30
以下是引用shiningshining在2005-9-20 19:06:00的发言:
agree B!


能谈谈你的理由吗?比如,为何B对,为何C不对?
作者: shiningshining    时间: 2005-9-20 23:23


.


[此贴子已经被作者于2005-9-22 16:49:49编辑过]

作者: dewsue    时间: 2005-9-21 01:09
我支持C。我举个例子吧:local ordinance 抽一支罚10000刀,请愿者问:支持全州戒烟吗?(实际全州法案抽一支罚10刀,没有LOCAL ORDINANCE 严格嘛)。BANG\ 以为所谓全州戒烟法案也是LOCAL法案的延伸——也是抽一支往死里罚,行,支持。岂不知,人家州法一实行,LOCAL法案就废了,再抽烟只是罚10刀了,嘻嘻,你这不是误导这帮人嘛。
作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-9-21 08:46
以下是引用shiningshining在2005-9-20 23:23:00的发言:

Which of the following circumstances would make the petition as circulated misleading to voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide?


题目中问的是那些认为将proposal推广到statewide的人如何被mislead的。


B.   In rural areas of the state, there are relatively few retail establishments and government offices that are open to the public.


B选项正好说明了这个proposal对于rural areas没有什么作用,也就谈不上能够extending statewide。


为什么,能推一下吗?我觉得,即便 relatively few 换成few no, 也未必会造成误导。






[此贴子已经被作者于2005-9-21 8:47:38编辑过]

作者: shiningshining    时间: 2005-9-21 09:14

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[此贴子已经被作者于2005-9-22 16:50:16编辑过]

作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-9-21 09:41
以下是引用shiningshining在2005-9-21 9:14:00的发言:

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=24&replyid=84938&id=84938&page=1&skin=0&Star=3


以下内容摘自讨论贴24楼:


从这道题目的讨论中,反映了两种典型的CR思维方式:
1, 紧扣题目中ETS的意图, 题干中反复出现all cities, most towns, statewide, retailestablishment, government office等,在强调一个地域范围的概念,然后就考你这个范围内的加强或削弱.
2, 题干中从未涉及法案的强弱,给一个涉及强弱的选项,等着你跳进出.
其实这方面很容易避免中埋伏,所有ETS的CR题目,题干中都给出了明确的走向,紧紧跟着走,不要随意往外发挥,否则你一定踩中它的地雷.你们牢记这一点,比记住一百个CR机经还管用.


个人觉得,你所找的链接中的24楼的同志,似乎不是很理解什么人,以及怎样才会被误导。

即使按他所说,题干有许多地域概念。那么,根据原文,rural areas 可能没有local ordinances ,谈何 misleading to voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide呢?


作者: shiningshining    时间: 2005-9-21 13:23

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[此贴子已经被作者于2005-9-22 16:50:45编辑过]

作者: howardwang    时间: 2005-9-21 16:00
以下是引用shiningshining在2005-9-21 13:23:00的发言:



呵呵,你再逼我,我就准备去跳楼了。。。


我原来选的是C,后来看了LAYWER的帖子,转投B门下了。


后来越看越觉得B对。


我的理解,就是C选项只是说明了程度的变化,而B选项说明范畴的变化。


PLMM,千万不要做傻事阿!哈哈!

开个玩笑,要坚持自己的选择。

这也是到目前为止,唯一与LAWYER NN 意见相左的题。


作者: ESeraph    时间: 2005-9-21 16:31
i support C.
作者: tonyyuan    时间: 2007-2-15 00:18
C absolutely!
作者: lunasea007    时间: 2007-2-15 20:07

选E的理由是,在美国The state law would not affect existing local ordinances banning smoking in places where the fire authorities have determined that smoking would constitute a fire hazard.Such as gas station,if fire authorities say "no smoke"in gas station,you just can not smoke there.

---------------------------------------------

更正,mislead应该是认为州法律能推广到地方的,实际不能。因为LOCAL FIRE AUTHORITIES HAVE RIGHT TO DECIDE THE PALCE WETHER YOU CAN SMOKE.


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-2-16 12:12:18编辑过]

作者: gonghao    时间: 2007-2-16 11:23

same side with mindfree

对那些“认为把地方法律扩大到全州的”选民进行误导:由下之上。

事实是:州法律会取代原来的地方法律。由上之下。


作者: lawyer_1    时间: 2007-2-17 11:03

该题真是仁者见仁,智者见智.不过选C的一个很大的缺陷是会使原文的最后一句话(The petition advocates a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public)失去作用,这是在逻辑题里几乎没有见过的,逻辑题的提干精练,每句话都有意义.只有B才答案,提干和原文浑然一体,没有多余的话,下面将两个答案组成段进行对比,看那段读起来浑一体:

In one state, all cities and most towns have antismoking ordinances. A petition entitled “Petition for Statewide Smoking Restriction” is being circulated to voters by campaign workers who ask only, “Do you want to sign a petition for statewide smoking restriction?” The petition actually advocates a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public(the public does not know). In fact, The state law would supersede the local antismoking ordinances, which contain stronger bans than the state law does. Therefore,  petition would be  circulated misleading to voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide.

In one state, all cities and most towns have antismoking ordinances. A petition entitled “Petition for Statewide Smoking Restriction” is being circulated to voters by campaign workers who ask only, “Do you want to sign a petition for statewide smoking restriction?” The petition actually advocates a state law banning smoking in most retail establishments and in government offices that are open to the public(the public does not know). However,in rural areas of the state, there are relatively few retail establishments and government offices that are open to the public.
. Therefore,  petition would be  circulated misleading to voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide.


[此贴子已经被作者于2007-2-17 11:12:10编辑过]

作者: 天天灿烂    时间: 2007-2-17 14:11

Lawyer重现江湖,大家有福了...

小弟在另一个帖子里稍微总结了一下BC两派的关点,如下,您给看看?

总结:

LAWYER解释:B正确

请愿者的目的:在公共建筑和政府办公室全面禁烟。

请愿者的手段:问选民是否支持全州禁烟。

选民预期:该请愿是将禁烟这件事情在全州普及。

B说的误导:如果法案通过,则请愿者目的达成全州公共建筑和政府办公室全面禁烟了。但是如果州内有一个区域没有公共建筑或政府办公室,那么那里就不会有禁烟令,那么支持全州禁烟的选民就被误导了。
            

MINDFREE解释:C正确
                

请愿者的目的:在公共建筑和政府办公室全面禁烟。

请愿者的手段:问选民是否支持全州禁烟。

选民预期:该请愿是将地方法扩展成全州性法律。

C说的误导:如果法案通过,起用了新的全州禁烟的法律,但是此法律更本就不同于地方法律,而是比地方法律来的宽松。那么那些期待将地方法律原封不动扩展到全州而此请愿的选民就被误导了。

从蓝色字体开始有了分歧,后面的选项完全是因为对选民预期的不同解读。

回到原文出处,选民的预期出现在问句中:
                    

Which of the following circumstances would make the petition as circulated misleading to voters who understand the proposal as extending the local ordinances statewide?

这里我认为是MINDFREE的解读更准确,更加忠于原文:

extending the local ordinances就是将地方法律扩展到全国。

法律是法律,禁烟这件事情是事情,概念不同。


作者: gonghao    时间: 2007-2-17 16:22

个人觉的原文那句话有其必然的解释意义,让试者了解至少州法律是如何规定禁烟的。

这对于任何一个选项来说都有指导意义

但是不可否认的是C是从问题出发来解决问题的,对这句话的依赖程度较小。

B是根据这句对请愿书内容解释来出发的

其实B说的是,州法律并做不到人们想象中的那种力度的禁烟,因为它只禁止某些场合抽烟,而广大农村是没有这些场合的,因为就算是全州化这样的法律,也没有起到禁烟的目的。

C是说,老百姓觉的这个请愿书就是把城镇的禁烟令,照搬到全州,但是其实洲法律并没有地方法律那么厉害,所以起不到禁烟的目的。

坦率的讲,各有千秋,当时我个人是觉的C比较直接。但是B也不是没有道理,let it be






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