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标题: 求助：这样的条件申请英国的LBS，可否 [打印本页]

作者: wanglijie 时间: 2003-8-17 01:19
标题: 求助：这样的条件申请英国的LBS，可否
求助：这样的条件申请英国的LBS，可否
13 Years work experience
former general manager and chairman of a medium -sized company
gmat 690
toelf: at least 620
bachelor

这样的条件申请英国的LBS，OXFORD，CAMBRIDGE 的MBA可否成功

作者: chipmunk 时间: 2003-8-17 02:17
I think you're a very good candidate for LBS if you have some international exposure or if you can prove to them that you would easily adapt to their multi-national study environment. They like a mature manager like you.

Not sure about other two schools, but you could send a short message to our CBSF member: zm. He is admitted by Oxford. Good luck!

作者: wanglijie 时间: 2003-8-17 02:25
I have more than 10 years international experience of cooperating with foreign countries

作者: k2 时间: 2003-8-17 05:01
agree with chipmunk. you are in as long as you do not screw up your essays.

作者: wanglijie 时间: 2003-8-17 08:00
thanks

作者: Shuzhen 时间: 2003-8-17 23:35
Basically you will be welcome at any top business schools in USA and elsewhere.

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-18 11:54
First, if the company in the original post is a state-owned or unknown company, it will be a very hard case to sell regardless of your title. It’s a KNOWN fact that top business schools prefer people from famous foreign consulting companies or multinational conglomerates. In other words, it’s very important to have experience working in a recognized and respected international working environment. Coincidently, most of the candidates with this kind of background have better English communication skills as well.

Second, no, LBS isn’t much better than Oxford or Cambridge. Take O for example; when you compare the vital things, such as employment statistics, student quality, faculty quality, and brand name, Oxford is not behind in any of the above. Sure, LBS is currently ranked higher and is more recognized among employers mainly due to its longer history.

Allow me to get into a bit more details. 1. Employment statistics, O has sent its students to all the top consulting and banking firms you can name (this information is available on O’s website). As a matter of fact, 5% of O’s students are sponsored by Mckinsey & company. 2 let’s talk about student quality. I know many O’s students have turned downed offers from top US schools, Insead, and of course, LBS. I know one guy from US who has a GMAT of 700 and 6-figure salary and working as a manager was rejected by O and Cam, but admitted by LBS. I am sure that there are more cases like this. Regarding Chinese applicants, in 2003, more than 300 applicants from China applied to O in the first two rounds alone, and there are totally 4 rounds of applications. Among the admitted, there are a PHD working for a well-know pharmaceutical firm and graduated from top US school, an America Express marketing manager who came to the US during high school, and a partner of a well-know consulting firms in Beijing, and the list goes so on. You get the picture. 3. Faculty. O has already hired away many senior LBS people and most of the faculty members hold Phd degrees from top institutions, such as Wharton. Finally, brand name is something O and Cam have been and will continue to build upon to attract top students, faculty members, and employers. There is no doubt that O and Cam will continue to climb up the ranking in an amazing pace as they have been in the past years.

Finally, choosing B school is a very personal choice and getting into them is a total crap shot. There are so many factors going into the admission process and it’s practically impossible to evaluate a person’s chance based on several lines of vague description. As a Chinese/Indian candidate, no one can say s/he will be welcomed at any good schools unless, to some extent, you currently work for the top US consulting firms.

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-8-18 12:05:10编辑过]

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-18 12:22
oh, since many people here are supposedly applying for b-schools, I am providing a valuable piece of advice. To provide a realistic, inspiring, and coherent career plan is the single most important factor in your application package. No matter how impressive your credentials are, you WILL be rejected by the schools if you can’t convince the admission officers that it’s the right time for you to study MBA and it’s a natural and necessary step in your career progress.

作者: chipmunk 时间: 2003-8-18 12:51
I always hesitate using English to follow zhang206's post. That's a lot pressure. Phew....

First of all, brother, calm down. We all know that Oxford is a decent school and it's almost impossible to decide which one is better, Oxford or LBS. Sure, I know someone who dinged at LBS (actually he is my buddy zm), but got into Oxford. I'm sure same thing happened to LBS admits (dinged at Oxford).

LBS has been ranked top-5 non-u.s b-schools for I don't know how many years. It has reasons. I think it's fair to say that both are great schools. When people come to decide which school to apply, it should be more about personal reasons. For example, 1-year program vs. 2-year program; LBS has good reputation in Finance area for long history vs. Oxford produces more GM type of graduates, etc....

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-18 13:12
Chipmunk, thanks for your personal attention so far. hehe...

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-18 13:18
thanks for your personal attention too. Having fun here, aren't you?

以下是引用lanlan000在2003-8-18 12:19:00的发言：
我特别喜欢 zhang206 的帖子，first, 够长，second, 有见地，finally, 都是英文：）

no kidding

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-8-18 12:19:24编辑过]

作者: chipmunk 时间: 2003-8-18 13:27

以下是引用zhang206在2003-8-18 13:12:00的发言：
Chipmunk, thanks for your personal attention so far. hehe...

You're welcome, brother! I wish you could bring more insightful information about Oxford, if you don't mind. I'm sure lots of our members here are more than happy to hear that.

By the way, is it still hot in Brit? I heard 1000 French people (can I say they're fragile?) already died because of that.

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-18 13:57
I am in the US at this moment, preparing for my trip to Europe. I will travel to several countries before I land in England. Where are you now?

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-18 14:30
probably not. you must be good at it.

作者: chipmunk 时间: 2003-8-19 01:44
I'm in Canada now, just cross your north border. Honestly, if Oxford provides two years program, I would seriously consider it. Oxford is Oxford, that's something I can tell my grandson.

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-19 02:14

以下是引用lanlan000在2003-8-18 14:40:00的发言：

oh, so sorry. ... why not......well, are you Chinese?

what kind of question is this? are you making fun of me?

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-19 02:25
I am just the opposite. I like one-year program. Less debt.

To me, a 2-year program is very useful if one wants to make a career change into top finance firms. However, in this economy, it seems that it's almost impossible to get into IB without previous IB experience, Chinese or Americans.

As I said earlier in another thread, the best bet for a Chinese to go to Wall Street is to do a math or hard science PHD at places like MIT. It was true back in the 90s, and I think it’s more so nowadays. You know, these guys can do some “dirty” quantitative type of work, such as derivatives. An MBA just doesn’t prepare you for it.

But on the hand, finance is boring as hell and the working environment is less than desirable. There is no doubt in my mind that the best way to go is to be an entrepreneur. One feels more accomplished and could enjoy life better, IMHO.

以下是引用chipmunk在2003-8-19 1:44:00的发言：
I'm in Canada now, just cross your north border. Honestly, if Oxford provides two years program, I would seriously consider it. Oxford is Oxford, that's something I can tell my grandson.

作者: k2 时间: 2003-8-19 02:27
First, if the company in the original post is a state-owned or unknown company, it will be a very hard case to sell regardless of your title.

==

not exactly. one of my friends got into LBS. He was a " fu hangzhang" from a remote small city branch office of bank of china.

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-19 02:38
last time I checked, there are exceptions to every generalization. enough said.

also, one with complete working experience in domestic/state-owned companies will inevitably have a much harder time to adjust to the learning environment, etc. and compete with his/her classmates in the job hunt front unless, of course, this person desires to go back to the domestic/state-owned route.

以下是引用k2在2003-8-19 2:27:00的发言：
First, if the company in the original post is a state-owned or unknown company, it will be a very hard case to sell regardless of your title.

==

not exactly. one of my friends got into LBS. He was a " fu hangzhang" from a remote small city branch office of bank of china.

作者: england 时间: 2003-8-19 03:23
Lanlan000,

You are dead wrong. See this global MBA ranking:

1.Oxford

huge gap

2. Fordham
3. LBS
4.HBS
5.Cambrige

This ranking is represented by Universal Definitely Right Ranking LLC, a Businessweek magazine, Usnews and world report,Wall street journal and Oxford consulting group JV company. All right reserved.

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-19 03:40
It should be "All rights reserved". see, the "right" in this context is not the same as the "right" in the phrase of "all right" that you actually understand.

Also, a ranking could be “conducted”, but not “represented”. You could, however, represent all the disgruntled people out there.

Hope the above helps. And a piece of advice: time to study English now, otherwise, nobody will hire you even you graduate from LBS.

以下是引用england在2003-8-19 3:23:00的发言：
Lanlan000,

You are dead wrong. See this global MBA ranking:

1.Oxford

huge gap

2. Fordham
3. LBS
4.HBS
5.Cambrige

This ranking is represented by Universal Definitely Right Ranking LLC, a Businessweek magazine, Usnews and world report,Wall street journal and Oxford consulting group JV company. All right reserved.

作者: england 时间: 2003-8-19 03:54
调查显示，在过去的20年里，有近40万国人留学海外。到目前为止，已有13万人学成归国。而且，“海归”的人数还在以每年13%的速度递增。在一浪高过一浪的归国潮面前，许多曾经抱有“镀金”想法的留学人员发现，“海归”的名片并不能让他们成为招聘市场中的抢手人才。

　　日前，记者在采访时听到一件颇引人深思的事情：中关村某家软件公司以月薪2500元招聘一名软件工程师，提出“有留学背景优先”，原以为很难吊起“海归”的胃口，没想到一下子引来三名“海归”硕士竞聘。同为“海归派”的该企业老板唏嘘不已：“在国外学习两年，最少也要二十几万元，以这种工资水平，不吃不喝也得十年才收回投资。”而该公司有五年以上工作经验的“土”硕士，月薪最低也有6000元。看来，在并不乐观的就业形势面前，“海归”自降身价也属无奈之举。那么，究竟是谁动了“海归”的饭碗呢？

　　同是留学生素质差异大

　　早些年，留学是少数“精英”学生的专利。而现在，随着国外教育机构日趋激烈的生源竞争，一些国外高校的门槛和学费都一降再降。到泰国、大马留学，每年的花销加起来不过三五万元人民币。最重要的是，低门槛准入让一些学习成绩中下游的学生有了拿钱混张“洋文凭”的机会。

　　据某教育机构负责人介绍，在该校读预科的学生中，有15%成绩较差，很难通过“高考独木桥”，有些学生家长甚至是怕孩子继续在国内“惹麻烦”才决定送他们出国读书的。不可否认，“海归”中有相当一部分是非常优秀的，但是，由于整个留学生队伍素质参差不齐，近几年，国内企业对“海归”的态度日趋理性，洋文凭与高薪、高职之间已经没有什么必然的联系了。

　　价值回归属于正常现象

　　高投资不能实现高增值，是目前不少“海归”颇为郁闷的事情。回国一年有余尚未找到理想工作的王先生告诉记者，自己出国前在一家通讯企业做市场营销，月薪7000元，而当时普通北京市民的收入不足2000元。后来，去英国读了两年书，花销加起来近三十万元，但回国以后几经周折找到的一份工作，月薪只有4000元，还需要从低层做起。王先生表示，很难接受“贬值”的现实。
==

OH, my england.

作者: chipmunk 时间: 2003-8-19 05:08
不好意思打断两位一下，虽然按理说论坛上是应该有发言自由的，而且这里的斑竹除了无聊的广告帖以外，一般很少删除网友们言论性的帖子。但是既然是一个公共的论坛，有些话还是得说说。

1）有句话叫做各抒己见，就是说，你说你的，我说我的，大家井水不犯河水。你如果觉得他人意见不对，可以提出，但是不要用一些过于情绪化的话。

2）不要替网上的人下人格结论，其实大家生活中估计都差不多。观点不同可以争鸣，但不要对他人上纲上线。

3）实在忍不住，尤其对论战有兴趣，建议另外找个场子厮杀一下过瘾，毕竟这里大部份的网友还是对客观的信息比较感兴趣。

4）网上再大的事也是小事，和为贵。两位看的出都是很有才华的人，因为生活背景不同而产生观点的不一致也是非常可以理解的，希望大家能够互相尊重，也希望今后能够多参与到我们的论坛中来。

作者: zhang206 时间: 2003-8-19 05:22
Chipmunk, thanks for the reminder.

It’s very obvious what this england trying to accomplish here with his very first post trying to discredit Oxford with his “smart” ranking. I couldn’t help but ridiculing him since I have some free time on hand. However, in the end, I believe that it’s quite clear that who’s right and who’s wrong here.

作者: hodgechen 时间: 2003-10-15 02:55
o

作者: hoechst 时间: 2003-10-16 03:18
都很严肃嘛

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