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标题: 两题语法的比较[注意]:大全305，补充188+kaplan一题 [打印本页]

作者: midnight 时间: 2003-8-7 09:12
标题: 两题语法的比较[注意]:大全305，补充188+kaplan一题
1, For many travelers,charter vacations often turn out to cost considerably more than they originally seemed.
A
B they originally seem to
C they seemingly would cost originally
D it seemed originally
E it originallyseemed they would

Ir is from LZM E3-1(P38)
The answer is A.

Pls check this one:

2.Researchers are studying plastics that dissolve at different rates,and they are finding that the so-called "quick disintegration" plantics are taking more time to deteriorate than:
A they originally seemed
B they seemed originally
C it seemed that they would origionally
D it originally seemed
E it originally seemed they would

It is form KAPLAN,and the answer is E.

What do you think?

To tell you the truth,I think Kaplan is more credible.LZM sometimes makes mistakes,for example,E1-13 in LZM and OG183 are the same question,but have different answers.Which one do you chose?Of course OG.Any comments?

作者: merlion 时间: 2003-8-7 11:17
比较一下：
in 1) vacations turn out to cost more than they originally seemed ( to cost ...)
   vacations turn out to cost more than it originally seemed they would (turn out to cost...)
parallel:turn out to cost & seemed ( to cost )

in 2) plantics are taking  more ... than they originally seemed ( to take ...) /but "in front of "than" is "taking" not "take"
   plantics are taking  more ... than it originally seemed they would (take...)
parallel:are taking  & would (take...)

so i think in 2) e is better.

i am not sure, you can correct me

作者: renprince 时间: 2003-8-7 12:02
的确是用平行进行分析
严重同意merlion

作者: midnight 时间: 2003-8-7 12:23

以下是引用merlion在2003-8-7 11:17:00的发言：
比较一下：
in 1) vacations turn out to cost more than they originally seemed ( to cost ...)
      vacations turn out to cost more than it originally seemed they would (turn out to cost...)
parallel:turn out to cost & seemed ( to cost )

in 2) plantics are taking  more ... than they originally seemed ( to take ...) /but "in front of "than" is "taking" not "take"
      plantics are taking  more ... than it originally seemed they would (take...)
parallel:are taking  & would (take...)

so i think in 2) e is better.

i am not sure, you can correct me

Thank you for your message,merlion,but:

for 1,why do you add "turn out to cost" after "....it origionally seemed they would"?I mean what is your basis?What if I add "cost",so the whole sentence is "...vacations turn out to cost more than it originally seemed they would ( cost...)?

for 2,if we are talking about parallelism,I think the sentence " plantics are taking more ... than they originally seemed ( to take ...) " is more parellel than the sentence " plantics are taking more ... than it originally seemed they would (take...)".Plus the former is not so wordy as the later.

I guess the key of this question is that these two expressions have different meanings.But I am not sure.

作者: rachelywq 时间: 2003-8-7 12:24
但是如果从表达的简洁这一角度来看的话，似乎第二道的e就不是太好了？？？

其实我在做kap时碰到这道题就错了，一直都不大明白？还有别的解释吗？？？我是严重糊涂啊！！！

作者: terrygoodboy200 时间: 2003-8-7 13:06
关键是it在句子里到底做什么出现。

作者: merlion 时间: 2003-8-7 13:51
for 1), add "cost" not right, 是省略了"to cost", not "cost". but if i add "to cost" after "would", apparently not right.
for 2), there is no "to take" in front of "than"

作者: pyndick 时间: 2003-8-7 18:53

以下是引用terrygoodboy2004在2003-8-7 13:06:00的发言：
关键是it在句子里到底做什么出现。

I also cannot find the referrent of “it” in 2

作者: rachelywq 时间: 2003-8-7 22:18

以下是引用pyndick在2003-8-7 18:53:00的发言：
I also cannot find the referrent of “it” in 2

对呀！这个问题我在做的时候好像就是因为它而把这个答案坚定不移的给排除掉了！很是不明白呀？？？

向大虾们求助了！！！

作者: 木川 时间: 2003-8-8 07:26
我觉得kaplan的这个答案有误，故意复杂化。it 没有明确的指代对象。按照平行结构的要求：结构相等，功能相同，概念对等，连接对象不能有争议。it originally seem they would 跟前面的句子不平行，而且如果是it 引导的主语从句，那么seem后面也应该加that.
愚见，请指教

作者: merlion 时间: 2003-8-8 08:36
sounds reasonable

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-8-8 08:48
1, for many travelers,charter vacations often turn out to cost considerably more than they originally seemed.
a
b they originally seem to
c they seemingly would cost originally
d it seemed originally
e it originallyseemed they would

ir is from lzm e3-1(p38)
the answer is a.

pls check this one:

2.researchers are studying plastics that dissolve at different rates,and they are finding that the so-called "quick disintegration" plantics are taking more time to deteriorate than:
a they originally seemed
b they seemed originally
c it seemed that they would origionally
d it originally seemed
e it originally seemed they would

这两个题目是这样的，（1）因为原文种只有一个复数概念，所以用they originally seemed
是没有问题的，并且意思十分合理（2）文中有两个复数概念，一般说来说这种简单的比较they就是指的是主语那么句子的意思就不明确了。大家之所以有疑问是对 seem的用法不熟悉，其实(2)的E答案的完整形式是：it originally seemed (to researchers that) they would。这样就可以避免歧义的发生。

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-8-8 08:51
补充一点：It seems that的that 是可以省略的，在语法中有这样一条原则：当主语从句不放在主语的位置上的时候，它的引导词that是可以省略的。

作者: merlion 时间: 2003-8-8 08:56
what's "主语从句"? "主语从句不放在主语的位置上的时候"? give an example, please

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-8-8 9:03:05编辑过]

作者: terrygoodboy200 时间: 2003-8-8 08:59
2个大疑问
1.travelers,vactions 不是2个复数吗？
2.如果it seemed to reseachers that they would 成立的话，这里they 就该指reseachers而不是plastics,反而逻辑混乱.

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-8-8 09:23
merlion的问题：It is important that she loves me. 其实就是 That she loves me is important.it就是一个形式主语，但是由于it is that 句型的使用，使得that引导的主语从句不需要放在主语的位置上那么这时候that是可以省略的，所以It is important she loves me.也没有错。

2个大疑问
1.travelers,vactions 不是2个复数吗？
就是因为有两个复数，那么than they originally seemed 这里的they优先指代句子的主语researchers，所以产生歧义

2.如果it seemed to reseachers that they would 成立的话，这里they 就该指reseachers而不是plastics,反而逻辑混乱.
如果你理解了第一个问题，为了避免歧义的产生。我们就用it seems that 的这种结构，没有任何逻辑混乱。这里的that 引导的从句就是一个事实，主语不是to sb中sb了。实在理解不了，就用排除法。

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-8-8 9:27:19编辑过]

作者: merlion 时间: 2003-8-8 10:09
that is clear, thx

作者: midnight 时间: 2003-8-8 11:21

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-8-8 9:23:00的发言：
2个大疑问
1.travelers,vactions 不是2个复数吗？
就是因为有两个复数，那么than they originally seemed 这里的they优先指代句子的主语researchers，所以产生歧义

2.如果it seemed to reseachers that they would 成立的话，这里they 就该指reseachers而不是plastics,反而逻辑混乱.
如果你理解了第一个问题，为了避免歧义的产生。我们就用it seems that 的这种结构，没有任何逻辑混乱。这里的that 引导的从句就是一个事实，主语不是to sb中sb了。实在理解不了，就用排除法。

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-8-8 9:27:19编辑过]

Firstzhang, 我同意在＂It is important that she loves me.＂中ｉｔ　是形式主语，ｔｈａｔ引导主语从句；但是在＂it seemed to travelers that vacations cost ..."中，travelers怎么可能是主语呢？真正主语应该是vacations，还原一下就是vavations seemed to cost.... to travelers. travelers 是介词宾语，to travelers 介词结构做状语．

作者: terrygoodboy200 时间: 2003-8-8 11:42
1stzhang 先确认下，你的答案是什么？

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-8-8 11:48
1、第一个是A,第二个是E.

2、midnight说的不对，it seemed to travelers that vacations cost ...真正的主语是that从句。你吧我说的理解错了，我说的从句中的主语，看来我的中文也得好好看看了

作者: midnight 时间: 2003-8-10 03:27
3x,1stzhang.Two more things confused:

1,it seems to somebody that...,怎么还原成没有形式主语的句子？拿that 从句代替it么？好象意思不太对劲；

２，主１＋谓１＋that＋主２＋谓２＋than +代词＋．．，在这个结构中，代词优先指代主１还是主２？
　如果是优先指代主１，那么为什么
they are finding that the so-called "quick disintegration" plantics are taking more time to deteriorate than　it originally seemed they would
这个句子中第二个they就不会存在指代的问题呢？

别嫌我麻烦喔

作者: 木川 时间: 2003-8-10 08:07
对，midnight问题题得很关键。they are finding that the so-called "quick disintegration" plantics are taking more time to deteriorate than　it originally seemed they would。。。
我觉得这道题还是不应该选择E。因为，在指代中指代对象查找得原则是：主语，宾语，表语，修饰对象中的名词，同时遵守就近指代的原则。在这个句子中，than中的they，应该优先就近指代分句中的plantics,而不是researchers。

midnight，that从句中的东东实际就是主语it的内容，直接还原，没有问题。

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-8-10 10:56
其实这个题目我就是用排除法做的，如果第二个题目你选A的话，从语法上来说这个 they要指句子的主语，这就是第一个题目要选A的原因。但是第二个题目是有两个复数概念，如果用A： they originally seemed是绝对不可以的，反观E：it originally seemed they would。A是绝对错误的，那么我们只能选E.这时候they也是出现在从句中的作从句的主语，这样我们可以避免它指代句子的主语，而可以指带前面从句的主语，这样就是合理的。

作者: 木川 时间: 2003-8-11 00:02
呵呵，这样的争论真有意思，看来lstzhang是语法的大牛。不过你是6月的版主，希望你能来这里常常看看，让我们跟着提高。
本题争论的焦点现在在于到底如何选择指代对象，其实这点我也不是特别清楚，而且在听白勇的课程的时候，他没有专门得撒开来讲过。我需要再看看OG得题目，然后拿出例子来再跟你论证吧。
谢谢

作者: zhouhaichen 时间: 2003-11-12 15:57
还有一个疑问.
我在做题的时候认为,题目中共两处出现了they,所以第二个they和第一个they 指代同一目标,无歧义,因而选了a.如果按照1stzhang 的说法,那么句中的两个they岂不指代不同事物了.似乎和某公理不符.
they are finding that the so-called "quick disintegration" plantics are taking more time to deteriorate than　it originally seemed they would

作者: aiaidi 时间: 2004-12-5 00:05

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-8-8 9:23:00的发言：
merlion的问题：It is important that she loves me. 其实就是 That she loves me is important.it就是一个形式主语，但是由于it is that 句型的使用，使得that引导的主语从句不需要放在主语的位置上那么这时候that是可以省略的，所以It is important she loves me.也没有错。

It is important she loves me

这样的句子在GMAT中绝对错，

这种省THAT的句子只能在口语中出现。

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-12-5 0:44:40编辑过]

作者: IDAISY 时间: 2005-6-1 11:42

以下是引用aiaidi在2004-12-5 0:05:00的发言：

It is important she loves me

这样的句子在GMAT中绝对错，

这种省THAT的句子只能在口语中出现。

it is important that....不是应该用虚拟吗?

作者: 小葵 时间: 2005-6-1 20:22
同意楼上的啊,it seemed that的that可以随便省略么?

作者: harlequin 时间: 2006-2-5 11:30

以下是引用midnight在2003-8-7 9:12:00的发言：
1, For many travelers,charter vacations often turn out to cost considerably more than they originally seemed.
A
B they originally seem to
C they seemingly would cost originally
D it seemed originally
E it originallyseemed they would

Ir is from LZM E3-1(P38)
The answer is A.

如果把B改成：they originally seemed to 对不对呢？

作者: handsong 时间: 2006-4-17 23:49

同意3年前1stzhang的说法。

作者: fannyyudan 时间: 2006-5-4 15:05

以下是引用zhouhaichen在2003-11-12 15:57:00的发言：
还有一个疑问.
我在做题的时候认为,题目中共两处出现了they,所以第二个they和第一个they 指代同一目标,无歧义,因而选了a.如果按照1stzhang 的说法,那么句中的两个they岂不指代不同事物了.似乎和某公理不符.
they are finding that the so-called "quick disintegration" plantics are taking more time to deteriorate than　it originally seemed they would

同意，有疑问，同一个they在句中指代了两个不同的名词。

只能说KAP没有掌握ETS的出题原则，答案都有THEY大家将就着选吧。

作者: nicole_jiang 时间: 2006-5-6 00:57

越来越糊涂了．．．

我觉得Ｅ才有问题．．．it根本无指代对象．．．ＯＧ上不是说出现代词一定要有指代的对象吗？

作者: gracedaish 时间: 2006-5-15 18:59

请问nn，这题有定论了吗？

作者: ly365 时间: 2006-6-15 14:45
kaplan's is wrong, for there are two "they" that refer to different things; it is absolutely wrong in GMAT.

作者: ly365 时间: 2006-6-15 14:46
sorry,kaplan's is right, for there are two "they" that refer to different things; it is absolutely wrong in GMAT.

作者: mejor 时间: 2006-7-13 20:15
3年后，我还是晕忽的。

作者: prosignia 时间: 2007-7-7 00:36
俺对kap补全的理解：

they are finding that ... plastics are taking more time to deteriorate than it originally seemed they (指researchers) would (find)

这样两个they都指researchers.

补充188没这样的指代问题，所以they orignially seemed就够了，而kap不得不这样罗嗦

作者: ricee 时间: 2008-3-25 21:52

试比较大全305和KAPLAN的两题结构：

大全305：A (pl.) turn out to do ..more than they (A) originally seemed (to do) - 主句中只有一个复数名词
KAPLAN：A (pl.) find that B (pl.) are doing..more than B-they? would originally seem (to do) 显然they会引起指代歧义

所以，KAPLAN这道题的重点应该是在说，当主句中出现两个复数名词，如何避免代词指代歧义的方法，而所谓最优选项E的做法就是用单数it作形式主语指代后面的内容。

具体的补全过程是：首先，B are doing ..more than B would originally seemed to do (内容具体化就是：Plastics are taking more time to deteriorate than plastics would originally seemed to take to deteriorate)

然后，把划线部分改成it引导的主语从句并省略：it originally seemd (that) they (plastics) would (take to deterioriate)

但个人持两点保留意见，也是前辈们有所争论的：

1.it seem that...主语从句引导词that究竟能否省略？OG里面好象没见过，待考；

2.一个句子中两次出现they,指代方向、内容各异，这样的逻辑不会被ETS认做有混乱不清的嫌疑？

作者: twang1981 时间: 2008-6-11 17:02

ＴＨＥＹ怎么会指代主句里的ＴＨＥＹ呢．．．．根本说不通啊．．呵呵

作者: dogholiday 时间: 2008-10-25 10:17

有没有高人把这句话给补齐了？

For many travelers,charter vacations often turn out to cost considerably more than they(vacations) originally seemed (to cost).

是这样的么？

这算哪门子的平行结构？主语？谓语？宾语？状语的平行？哪个都不是啊。

我还是觉得E通顺些。三年前的大牛只讲了就近原则。有没有其他大牛再说说？

作者: elric9 时间: 2009-7-23 13:57
up

作者: jehutymoon 时间: 2012-6-29 16:51
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