求助: Should I go or wait for one year -about Duke（兼MBA申请坦诚版） - ChaseDream

I have one question, please help me and give me some suggestion. Duke offer, is it derserving? Should I go or I ding it and wait for one year to repply for better school becaue Duke is not my dream school. Many appreciated your great help and suggestion!!!

Duke is my dream school! Not because others are difficult or not (Actually, it's definitely not easy to get offer from Duke), but I like "Team Fuqua", like the weather there and the location.....

If it's not your dream school, just give up and give opportunity to others who want to go there.

"is it deserving?" - that's a tough question. If you think only a M7 school is "deserving", then Duke certainly is not. Think (& think hard) about whether Duke aligns with your post-MBA career, talk to as many Duke alumni as possible, have a good assessment of yourself and of Duke. If the answer is NO, then you won't regret giving up on Duke.

If you think you can and will do much better next year, then take a chance and reapply. That's why you need to have a good and realistic assesment of your profile. Can you see one area that you can significantly improve over the course of one year (technically, just the next few months?) The only thing I can see is GMAT, which can be "dramaticaly" improved given the time and effort. You cannot do anything w/ your GPA at this point. And your WE won't change much just because of one extra year. Perhaps you can have a completely different set of letters?

Or ask your "dream" school, if you have been rejected, for a feedback and then predict the outcome for next year. Honestly, for any of the top 7 schools, it's a crap shot, unless you're a 790/4.0/Harvard grad/McK consultant

. That's why it's important to have a backup school, one which you wouldn't mind attending in case...Good luck!

DUKE哪点不好了? MBA的排名就那么回事,HBS也不能保证你将来的成功.大家也就是混个牌子,拿个找工作的敲门砖.将来的发展还是靠自己的努力拉.

谢谢各位的指点！我对MBA的申请不是很熟悉和透彻。所以真心的听取大家的意见。也感谢大家的坦诚之语！我今年很仓促的申请，当时其实是把DUKE作为BACK UP 的学校，因为考虑到投资回报，地点，和未来职业走向，就业的问题。（不好意思，这么说真的不是觉得DUKE有什么不好，只是大家学MBA真的不能不考虑很现实的东西。）

我的GMAT和GPA 其实不错拉！工作经历自我感觉也相当不错！自我觉得今年申请失误之处在于没有很透彻的了解MBA 的申请程序，时间上没有管理好，导致ESSAY写作很仓促，没有写出自己的出彩之处和亮点，对问题也没有挖掘很深。而这些方面，正是我认为可以在一年之内得到提高的，因为有更多的时间去思考和挖掘自己。

毫无疑问，DUKE是一所不错的学校，可是，每个人都有自己心目中的一两所DREAM SCHOOL，对不？既然咱们舍弃了相当不错的工作，既然要花上10万美刀，既然还要搭上两年的青春，为什么不争取投资收益最大化呢？

这些都是我的真实想法，基于我的情况，请各位大牛大侠指点一二，是否值得去等待一年。小弟谢过！！！

我觉得你值得等一年（尤其是如果工作时间不长，年龄还不大的情况下）

不是说Duke不好。Duke是第一个录取我的学校，也是我的dream school之一。我是认为，如果你在今年时间仓促，Essay写得不理想的状态下都能拿到Duke的offer, 明年假以时日，多加锤炼，还是很有希望向你的dream school发起冲击的。Essay这个东西的确是越改越好，越磨越精的。Anyway, Duke is already a top tier school so believe in yourself!

MBA也许只是随着一个时代的潮流，在连普通老百姓都能嘟哝出这个时髦的玩意儿的时候，终于也砸到了我的头上。这一砸似乎力量还相当不轻，让我这个曾经自诩为中国少数清醒和独特的一代的家伙也终于不得不现实一把了。虽说咱头上不见华发，额上没有岁月的纹路，可是，咱不能不把目光投向5年之后的中国或者说5年之后的自己。想想从政，自己没有诸多裙带关系，料想如何也挤不进那门槛，就算不小心在门口看热闹的时候被人挤进去了，也立即就会被中南海的看门大哥赶出来：“去，去，去，那里来的毛头，也不看看这是不是你该来的地方。”

所幸自己总算没有白白继承父辈的聪明才智，说到考试学习，打从识字开始，我就有着得天独厚的优势。小弟我想想不就是考G和T吗，这点事情还不至于难倒自己，好歹也抓住MBA热潮的尾巴。一切都在控制和掌握中，3个月之后，小弟我完成了G和T，自己窃喜成绩还不错，料想申请TOP5成绩已然不是问题。

小弟于是在2004年12月开始了MBA 的正式申请工作。本以为“ 周瑜年少，虽有不才，坐拥双娇（哈佛，斯坦福）当不在话下。俺们也算是跟两校的牛牛们有过杯酒之交，也颇为知道他们的斤两一二。当然，牛牛们，牛校确有过人之处。小弟现在想来，实在是当时不谙时事，没有悟到MBA申请的几处秘诀，导致今年申请拿到了保底的OFFER。在小弟认为悟到了所谓的武功秘诀之后，自当想：（基于上贴的几点理由），吾虽不才，料想不至于愚钝，既然悟到了一二，必将那武功写作给它练到炉火纯青的火候。

一点感受，说笑而已。还望各位高手和前辈指点一二。谢过！！！

MM是要去Michigan 了吗？一点我的小小建议，MM的背景去NYU 也很好噢，个人比较倾向NYU，地点，就业机会，感受真正的美国生活，CONSULTING, NYU 在就业和机会上有得天独厚的机会。

以下是引用DDDCCC在2005-4-1 23:26:00的发言：

MBA申请坦诚版

一点感受，说笑而已。还望各位高手和前辈指点一二。谢过！！！

哈哈，英雄所见略同。看兄弟写的这段话，似乎也给我的申请下了注解。想去年9月底考完G，拖拖拉拉到12月才动笔，也以为可以轻松搞定一所梦之校。结果最后手里只有duke. 几个月过去了，现在已经领悟到当时仓促写就的essay有太多的不足之处，可惜怪只怪自己，就像你说的，对这场游戏的秘诀（套路）没有领悟透彻，就匆忙上阵，还不得败下阵来？

如果你还年轻,我建议你再等一年。相信你一定能有斩获。不过兄弟我是决定要去的了，时间不等人啊。如果duke的人知道我在deadline之前的那个晚上花一个通宵写的那三篇essay，不知道作何感想。

回过头来说，duke是不错的学校，M7也不是你将来成功的支票. You will not sell your school for the whole life. 名校情节也不能太重哦。

楼主小弟, 你的问题太难了,比任何商学院的作文都难.绝大部分申请人都想去一个dream school. 但任何人都没有把握一定能拿下一个象你提到的那些学校. 理由很简单:申请这些学校的人,大多都能拿出东西出来的,学校先筛掉一批明显弱一些的申请人外,剩下来的录谁都有理由,没有被录的不一定是条件不好(从另一方面讲,条件好的并不一定保证被录取).所以,对谁来讲,都是只能去试一试,谁都没有绝对的把握.多一年下来,你有机会去试一试,但是你同样要多准备一手.不去试一试的话,心里总有点遗憾,有点不甘心.这个选择难啊难!!!

Wharton: 喜欢招有钱的聪明人。所谓有钱有势力。诸如台湾辜氏两个女儿就读于该校，。。。（王重阳）

Harvard: 喜欢招有政治背景的人，所谓有势力有钱，注重血统的纯正性。就中国来说，如果你来自北大，清华，台大，也就属于该校的纯正血统之一。（段王爷）

Standford: 喜欢有钱有名气的人。比较倾向不同于WHARTON和HARVARD的发展方向和个性，当属于邪派之首。（黄老邪）

USC:据说有钱不聪明的人去USC。（郭靖，可能还是欧阳克更准）

MIT: 喜欢绝对有创造力和创新精神的人。在美国一听来自MIT的人，就是聪明和智慧和象征。（黄蓉）

Columbia: 喜欢异常热情和爱出风头的人。（美国人称CRAZY 或者PASSIONATE,中国人称好摆唬，可能是这两个字，不准）（周伯通）

以下是引用DDDCCC在2005-4-1 23:43:00的发言：

To delphine18MM,

我还没决定呢。NYU的location和发展机会众所周知，我的concern主要有两点：一是生活成本，二是Visa. 尤其是后者啊...

在我跟美国朋友聊天和谈对学校看法的同时，其实我发现大多数美国人和中国人一样，非常看重学校的整体排名和名气。而且他们心目中的TOP3和M7跟中国人的看法并无不同之处。（当然圈内的招聘人士例外，想来差别也不会很大）。 KELLOGG, CHICAGO 和MICHIGAN这3所学校中，当数CHICAGO的名气最大。学校风格也完全不一样，在我对学校的访问和研究中，我发现什么样的学校培养什么样的人，真的很准，你通过仔细的观察，会发现，每个学校出来的人都有着他们自己的风格和文化，尽管个性化是一定的，但是，每个学校的人都有一定和共同文化和共性。

Kellogg：在TOP的学校里，KELLOGG和MICHIGAN的学校相对而言，处事较为低调。对于MARKETING 和SALES领域的学生来说，首当其选的当然是NW。不过该学虽然强调多样化，仍旧偏爱有MARKET背景的学生，毕竟在激烈的MBA排名中，先保住自己最优势的才是明智的，然后在去发展多样化。（乔峰）

Chicag 仍旧是金融3巨头之一。对于学金融的学生来说，除了WHARTON, 该校和哥大就是第二选择。该校同WHARTON 一样，依然强调学生扎实的数理背景和分析能力。校友网络比NW好，地理位置也不错。（张无忌）

Michigan: 务实风格偏重，如果是想做企业的人，除了MIT之外，该校是一个不错的选择，当时地理位置难免不是很好。但该校的学生跟MIT相比，的确创造性和敏锐性稍逊一点。如果说MIT的学生是培养企业家和STARTUP的居多的话，该校的学生更适合做OPERATION MANAGER 或者分管生产经营的VP。当然物流和供销领域，该校也是一个不错的选择，而且该校最近大势吸收中国学生，庞大的校友网络也是一个优势。

以下是引用yanying76在2005-4-2 2:22:00的发言：

回过头来说，duke是不错的学校，M7也不是你将来成功的支票. You will not sell your school for the whole life. 名校情节也不能太重哦。

BTW, 还是希望能在duke看到你。

唉，兄弟怎么跟我一样，难道DUKE有很多这样的难兄难弟吗？尤其是那赶ESSAY的事！！！兄弟要去了吗，还是跟我有同样的情结，有无考虑再等上一年？？？

ANYONE能说一说DUKE的优势和投资价值吗，本人想FOCUS ON FINANCE &GM。

以下是引用janechen在2005-4-1 10:52:00的发言：

Honestly, for any of the top 7 schools, it's a crap shot, unless you're a 790/4.0/Harvard grad/McK consultant . That's why it's important to have a backup school, one which you wouldn't mind attending in case...Good luck!

绝对同意楼上的兄弟！！！这么说，我还有机会，入选M7乃至TOP3.

以下是引用swan在2005-4-2 23:38:00的发言：

What is Top 3: It should be Harvard, Wharton, Standford, right???

What is M7: Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia and ......???

after that, Chicago, Kellogg, Columbia, Sloan, Tuck, Duke, Haas, Yale, Cornell, Ross, Anderson, Darden, Stern, they are pretty much at the same level.

which one is "better"? only depends on where (geographically) and which industry you want to work in after mba.

hey everyone knows Yale SOM is a "second-tier" school compare to the other "top-10", but if you wanna go back to Asia, i bet you Yale name rings a bell much louder than Kellogg. does that make Yale a better b-school than the "M7"? of course not.

5 years down the road, who the heck cares about "which school did you graduate from?" your boss is not stupid, s/he won't give you promotion just because you graduated from Harvard. if you can't make money for the company, you are gone, you are history, baby.

and if you will need to hang yourself on this school brand thing whole your life just to boost your self-esteem, i say you are a darn big LOSER pal.

but hey if you are a "brand" sucker, and if you are still young, then just wait for another year, apply to these so-called "M7". otherwise you might regret your whole life: "why the fxxk i didn't wait for one more year so i can get into harvard and brag about it till my death"

disclaimer: applied to two of the so-called "M-7", got in one, got rejected by the other, and i am going to the third school which gives me dean's fellowship (which is also a so-called "top-10")

for those "brand-suckers" who feel being offended, take my word as "constructive criticism". LOL.

i am just fed up with this kind of stupid discussion.

以下是引用janechen在2005-4-3 1:20:00的发言：
But the general concensus within business circle is that there are the core 7 schools.

you are talking about the "general concensus" within Businessweek discussion forum bah?

以下是引用DDDCCC在2005-4-3 4:20:00的发言：

绝对同意楼上的兄弟！！！这么说，我还有机会，入选M7乃至TOP3.

but you really need to work hard figure out why those "M7" rejected you this time. and some schools are not quite re-applicant friendly - say H, S, so unless you had some life-changing stories to tell next year, i suggest you can save the 400 bucks.

Chicago is the easiest to get in - i've heard that its selectivity is 30% and above - means for every three person applies to Chicago, Chicago admits one.

so good luck, but the first thing; ask yourself what do you want to do after MBA. what do you want to get out of MBA? money? career? i can guarantee you that a MBA degree does not grant you automatic success.

my company's strategic planning group is recruiting a summer intern from Stanford/Sloan/Haas/Anderson, and no school name gives you advantage over the others - as a matter of fact i throw a Resume of a FY MIT student (an American) to the hiring manager and he says "that would be interesting to know more about him, but right now i am more lean towards Anderson" - why? just because Anderson is much closer to my company (geographically).

以下是引用adios在2005-4-3 4:22:00的发言：

this is totally, absolutely bull shit.

to me there is only two "super" schools: H/S. W is little bit on the edge.

after that, Chicago, Kellogg, Columbia, Sloan, Tuck, Duke, Haas, Yale, Cornell, Ross, Anderson, Darden, Stern, they are all at the same level.

which one is "better"? only depends on where (geographically) and which industry you want to work in after mba.

and if you will need to hang yourself on this school brand thing whole your life just to boost your self-esteem, i say you are a darn big LOSER pal.

disclaimer: applied to two of the so-called "M-7", got in one, got rejected by the other, and i am going to the third school which gives me dean's fellowship (which is also a so-called "top-10")

for those "brand-sucker" who feels offended, take my word as "constructive criticism". LOL.

i am just fed up with this kind of stupid discussion.

But for your opinion, I can say you guy should be also a brand-sucker, because in your heart, just S/H are your top and dream schools. (Dont be angry, just a kidding, Ha!). What is the difference from these so-called M7 and Top3. If you are obsolutely outstanding, no matter where you go, Harvard or H...., you are still outstanding. But, if you are stupid, even if you are pushed into Harvard, after two years, I believe you are still Stupid. Even your boss make a stupid big mistake and hire you, after a short time, when he/she found you are one of Harvard Stupid Guy, you will definetely be fired.

For top10, m7, top3, it makes no sense. Just because no matter where you will go, you are still yourself. You think you will get into a heaven and change your cloth, No!!! You are still in the real business world. Guanxi, Money, and ........

guys, no need to feel upset by my words. i am just fed up with this stupid "M-7", "Top-10" talk, and yes, i am stupid. i know that too.

but for someone interesting enough to comment that "在TOP的学校里，KELLOGG和MICHIGAN的学校相对而言，处事较为低调。", or went even further, to lable some school kids are "smarter" than others. this is BULL SHIT.

i said it once, i say it now, and i will say it again if someone dares to bring that shit up next time - yes you heard me right. loud and clear.

am i a "brand-sucker"? of course i am. but at least i know when to let this "brand" go and pick up something more realistic.

say, if i was given the choice of wharton and yale, will i go for yale? probably not. but if yale gives me full tuition, would i still go to wharton? probably not. it is that simple.

以下是引用felix_zheng在2005-4-3 12:17:00的发言：
对了,这下气氛好多了^_^

and i hate people talking "today's weather hahaha...", so a little bit of spice, may raise your blood pressure a bit, but good for your health,

楼主，对你的心情深表同情。我也是申请太晚了。3月份才申请不是比你更晚吗？提交申请后我才发现自己有那么多地方本该写的很好的都没有写。我不知道如果我拿到了学校的offer会怎么想，但是我知道我明年再申请一年一定会比今年写的好很多。看到你的帖子心理很宽慰看到同路人。

以下是引用adios在2005-4-3 11:32:00的发言：

guys, no need to feel upset by my words. i am just fed up with this stupid "M-7", "Top-10" talk, and yes, i am stupid. i know that too.

I do not say you are " Stupid", even in the Harvard intelligent peers, who can say nobody is stupid. Even in the one stupid group, who knows somebody is super smart. I do not know you guy, so I can not say which group you belong to? So, here, I do not want to discuss you are smart or stupid. I want to discuss these schools.

Once again, I do not means the individual, I means collectivity and samples. Yes, absolutely, for every investigation, when the R square is above 70%, we will say, wow, it is a good data collection and analysis. So, someone should not belong to these 70% samples, but other 30% exceptional. For me, I totally hate the words" BULL SHIT" because it make no sense. When sb can not say some reasons, like to use this kind of words to criticize others. But, But, you can say, I know these word is American guys' tongue. So, even if I can bear you say this kind of words, why you can not bear others discuss this kind of topic. It is very important for most of people to choose the goodfit school and seek the dream school, right??? So the more we discuss, the more people will know these schools and get the more information.

i said it once, i say it now, and i will say it again if someone dares to bring that shit up next time - yes you heard me right. loud and clear.

Answer: Hi, Adios, the first things is drinking some cold water, and taking a deep breath, and now we can talk with this topic again. I do not feel upset. For me, it is ok. Thank you very much, even in your opinion, I finally and luckly belong to the so-called brand school and dream school.What I talk is how to choose the school and evaluate the school in a right way basing on the background and personalities of different people. Maybe someone will swim quickly in Kellogg than in Harvard. That will be great if this guy choose Kellogg. Is that right???

am i a "brand-sucker"? of course i am. but at least i know when to let this "brand" go and pick up something more realistic.

Great!!!

say, if i was given the choice of wharton and yale, will i go for yale? probably not. but if yale gives me full tuition, would i still go to wharton? probably not. it is that simple.

Go, Go, Go, just go!!!

yes i am coming.

Yes, we are classmates,Ha!!!

and my apologies if my words offended you.

And this topic is just a forum about how to choose school, so all of my opinion is just based on the topic "school", not on people, so dont misunderstand!!! So, after you take a cold shower and drink a cold water, we can go ahead... (A joke, friend)

人算不如天算,万一2008年H1B大幅削减或联邦利率和失业率高企,HBS毕业也不妙了

关于重新申请：再花半年的时间仔细考虑各个essay的写法，确实会有比较大的帮助；

关于Duke是否值得：如果楼主问的是是否能学很多东西的化，我可以用几个MBA毕业生的原话来解释一下：“其实在各个学校（指比较好些的学校）学的东西都差不多，”我说的这个几个毕业生包括Duke的，也包括H/s/w/k/ch的。

还有后半句话，“但出来后差别就比较大些，学校名气越大的，起点越高；”（平均而言）

个人觉得从楼主显示的自信和能力看，去Duke和去别的所谓别的dream学校，出来后的机遇应该相差不大。

但很能理解楼主的心情－“不甘心！”。去了duke，可能以后看到别人从你的dream 学校毕业，你始终会有遗憾的，可能心理会不断的告诉自己“其实我也可以去H/S/W的”。如果是这样的话，我还是鼓励楼主再尝试一下，了确自己的心愿。去了，固然好，去不了，也算给自己一个交待。

以下是引用xilin_在2005-4-3 23:27:00的发言：

关于重新申请：再花半年的时间仔细考虑各个essay的写法，确实会有比较大的帮助；

绝对同意XILIN老兄的意见。本人从身边朋友的成功案例和本人的案例来看，即使当年全军覆没，来年还能拿到数个TOP10的朋友大有人在，其中G,T和GPA全部一样，只是重新思考了ESSAY.

关于这个，其实，我想大部分人都知道，TOPMBA学到的东西90％是差不多的。

还有后半句话，“但出来后差别就比较大些，学校名气越大的，起点越高；”（平均而言）

个人觉得从楼主显示的自信和能力看，去Duke和去别的所谓别的dream学校，出来后的机遇应该相差不大。

One of the advantages of MBA application is that you can try several of your dream schools in several years. On the contrary, the college entrance exam in China provides one, and only one, chance for most students, which is more risky. As a result, some of us may not end up with dream colleges and dream specialization.

Therefore, why not give yourself another try so that you will not regret in the future?

The disadvantages: I have to wait for one year, and can not concentrate on other stuff. I think most XDJM of CD should have the same experiences. When you plan to apply for MBA and write essay, you can NOT do other stuff very well. Thinking about the time does not wait for me, thinking abour many time maybe will be wasted in MBA application, thinking about the complicated MBA feeling: love and kill, I have to say, it is really painful.

让人又爱又恨的DUKE啊，有如GMAT的鸡肋分数700。食之，弃之？？？？？？

７００分能去ＤＵＫＥ就不错了．不重考ＧＭＡＴ的话，７００上你所谓的Ｍ７有点低．必须拿超众的ＥＳＳＡＹ和工作经历弥补才能使你和别的申请者拉平．你有自信做到？如果你愿意再受一年苦，考试，写ＥＳＳＡＹ，考虑签证，ＦＩＮＥ．

但是一年的时间啊...你不是永远年轻，等待一年，意味着你会流失一年的ＡＤＶＡＮＴＡＧＥ．我的感觉，ＭＢＡ这件事，应该速战速决．尽早地回到职涯中去才是比较理智的方法．ＭＢＡ毕竟只是达到目标的过程之一，而不是目标本身．太任性地求所谓的完胜是不现实的．并且盲目的自信和期望过高本身就是危险的信号．虽然这里倡导追梦啊，ＰＡＳＳＩＯＮＡＴＥ啊，但是虚幻的鼓动性的东西，往往会把人带如歧途，钻牛角尖．是我个人的感觉．

而且恰如上面有的人说过的，经济形式是不等人的．早一年和晚一年结果很可能完全不一样．举个例子，两个我的大学同学都去了ＩＮＳＥＡＤ，一个００年毕业，一个０１年，００年毕业的人手里拿了一堆

ＯＦＦＥＲ，０１年的那个由于经济形式急转直下毕业后好几个月都飘着，个人财政和想留在欧洲的原因，压力极大．当然，也很有可能你拖后一年入学，正好会赶上好年景，这都不好说．

管理自己和管理一个公司一样，需要有目标，有执行计划，考虑不确定因素的影响，有弹性和ＳＣＥＮＡＲＩＯ，有ＣＯＮＴＩＮＧＥＮＣＹ　ＰＬＡＮ．以及你能接受的最底限．还要了解和你做有游戏的其他玩家：学校／其他申请人．所谓知己知彼．都想好了，就可以避免无用功－不管是金钱，精力，还是时间．

让人又爱又恨的DUKE啊，有如GMAT的鸡肋分数700。食之，弃之？？？？？？

如果要重新申请，又要确保能去自己想去的学校，那么GMAT肯定是要重新考了。否则申请的结果也许和去年一样。不过重考，在申请，就要做好重新做一遍去年做过的事情的心理准备。这种情况，如果心里很焦躁，会过得很痛苦的。说得好玩一点：有的小孩子能够一边看电视一边学习；有的小孩却只能被父母关在书房里面学习。

不过从楼主留言可以看出来，楼主是个做事情非常关注的人（也应该是成功的重要因素之一），申请的过程中很难集中精神做别的事情，这样就比较麻烦了。不如把这个事情看得轻松一点，把申请的过程当作一个自我认识，自我审视的过程，同时做好手头其他的事情。这样，再等一年也不妨，去你了最想去的学校，还是值得的，相信自己能成功，就一定可以。

商学院不过是职业的敲门砖，又不能吃一辈子，是不是这个理？

Duke的问题总是这么经典，估计是眼光放在TOP5的人以DUKE保底的策略所致。去，还是不去，确实是一个问题。也不一定是名校情结（DUKE本身也是名校，大学综合排名高的惊人），投资回报还是要考虑。请CD上DUKE的校友介绍以下中国学生在美国的就业情况吧。

更正一下，“让人又爱又恨的DUKE啊，有如GMAT的鸡肋分数700。”是我的一个比喻。

我们讨论了这么久，请DUKE的校友或者在校生也帮帮忙阿！帮我们多了解一个DUKE的内部信息，就业情况和薪资状况。毕竟大家挣钱省钱都不容易阿！

庸俗点说，人生就是赌博，既然你已经将宝压在了MBA，再加重点筹码有如何呢？？？

与其终日郁闷，在此由他人隔靴搔痒，不如痛下决心！赌输了也此生无憾，赌赢了更是意气风发。不管怎样关键是自己内心的顺畅与满足！

看帖子，兄弟当是自信和有实力之士，何不立即行动，第一轮申请的话05年12月或06年1月就有结果。

兄弟放眼5年之后的中国和自己的发展，1年的等待和煎熬又何难之有，就当作是苦其心志吧！

莫非兄弟已是H/M中的一员，或是跟我一样，有志向于这两所学校。乐得跟老兄交个朋友，同路人！！！

一般来说，Duke,Michigan和Darden对中国学生是很友好的。如果你的申请做得很好，成绩也突出，一般来说录取是没有问题的，能有80+%的希望，这3个学校招得中国人都蛮多的；Duke和Darden还会经常给中国申请人一点钱意思意思，这在top 10里是很少见的。wharton和chicago也对中国学生友好，不过申请做得很好，成绩也突出的情况下录取的可能性会小一些，能有50%的希望，需要一些运气。而 MIT, Kellogg, Columbia, Tuck对中国学生没有特别偏爱，申请做得很好，成绩也突出的情况下录取的机会也很小，能有30%的希望录取，运气的比重很大。而H，S，中国学生申请做得极好，成绩也非常突出，可能也要纯粹看运气。

２，如果你被duke录了，你基本上也会被michigan和darden录如果你也报了这2个；而wharton和chicago有可能录取你；另外的top school们就得基本上全看运气了。中国申请人被duke录取而被别的top10据掉并不表明duke和这些学校的差距，只表明duke确实偏爱中国学生。别的学校据掉你并不表明你不优秀，而很可能表明你的对别的学校的申请运气不好。duke是个很好的学校，绝对是值得去的。

３，所谓big7也不是绝对地表明这些学校就超过别的top10，只能说明这些学校是最老的名校。duke是相对来说比较年青的。历史悠久不代表一定好。历史悠久的好处是校友多，不过duke的校友现在已经起来了，同时duke的“team fuqua"是绝对的有名。理性分析，上duke你不会后悔的。

４，楼主要是感情上无法割舍你的dream schools，一定要等到来年重新申请。建议不要试H和S了，基本上没有什么希望，这2个学校好像是不偏爱reapplicants的。同时一定要认识到申请的艰巨性，幸运儿毕竟是少数。

申请没做好一定不会被不偏爱中国人的top school录取。这是对的。 A -〉B

但是你不能推论到：做好了申请，就会被这类学校录取。not A -〉not B是不成立的。即使你明年申请做得很好，也不一定会得到你想要得结果。你不知道别人会不会做得更好，一定要做好思想准备。中国人走这条路的人越来越多，今年如果签证情况好，明年往后的申请人会更多。而且有许多GMAT高分的人第一次申请不顺利，都要在第二次的申请中努力。而且前人经验积累的越来越多，以后的申请的质量也会越来越高。建议还是三思而后行，一定要充分得估计到困难。楼主看来是个很优秀的年轻人，做好充分准备后，希望应该是很大的。

以下是引用tianwan在2005-4-5 2:02:00的发言：

１，对于中国申请人：

另外你分析的时候一定要理性：

申请没做好一定不会被不偏爱中国人的top school录取。这是对的。 A -〉B

祝你做出最适合你的决定。

其实楼主的问题不在于明年申请不到牛校，尽管我认为duke已经可以算牛校了，只不过这两年找中国人多了点，大家都不当回事了。

我认为楼主的问题在于觉得牛校就是一切，这一点不能苟同，例子中国的美国的多了去了，就拿我说事，我曾经上过中国数一数二的牛校，最后还不是在国内混不下去了，三十好几要逃去美国读MBA。

以下是引用tianwan在2005-4-5 2:02:00的发言：

１，对于中国申请人：

另外你分析的时候一定要理性：

申请没做好一定不会被不偏爱中国人的top school录取。这是对的。 A -〉B

祝你做出最适合你的决定。

thanks a lot, tianwan, you are super Niu!!! As the the date of deposit is coming, I need to make a final decision.

以下是引用tommysu2004在2005-4-4 15:09:00的发言：

小于30岁，可以再等等。

大于30岁，就去duke吧。

HBS保证不了你成功，DUKE也一定能对得住你投资。

商学院不过是职业的敲门砖，又不能吃一辈子，是不是这个理？

同意!年龄也很重要啊!人都是要老的的要死的,有些事情由不得人啊.......不过可靠的消息是HBS对30岁以上的申请者没多大兴趣

以下是引用tommysu2004在2005-4-5 10:31:00的发言：

服了你，tianwan，写东西不需要时间？

其实楼主的问题不在于明年申请不到牛校，尽管我认为duke已经可以算牛校了，只不过这两年找中国人多了点，大家都不当回事了。

牛校不等于成功。别说我吃不着葡萄啊，呵呵。

But I think the admission from a top Chinese college is not as a good indicator of your past success and future professional potential as the admission from a top MBA program is. As we all know, the former depends on "grade" only. Still more, there are both "popular" and "unpopular" departments/specializations in the college, which makes it difficult to compare apple with apple just based on where a student graduate from. In terms of grades, many students from not-so-prestigious universities qualify for most specializations of top universities.

On the contrary, if you are admitted by a top MBA, you must have undergone a more comprehensive screening that evaluates the reputation your alma mater, your rank in the class, your IQ and logic as indicated partly by the standard tests, the reputation of your employer, your responsibilities in the firm, and other soft skills. This is a good summarization of your academic, professional, and personal achivements. What is more, since we are able to apply for multiple schools, the possibility of "bad luck", which is somewhat high in college entrance exam in China, can be kept minimal. As a result, we can mostly rest assured that we will achieve what we deserve. (of course, it is another story as to whether or not you will finally attend the program due to financial or personal concerns.)

In this sense, I think you should give yourself another try, or you will regret for your whole life. (though we cannot say that the job prospects of Duke are necessarily less satisfacotry.)

if Duke is not your "dream school", I think you should not come, you will absolutely regret.

以下是引用Duke2006在2005-4-6 1:10:00的发言：

if Duke is not your "dream school", I think you should not come, you will absolutely regret.

Duke is my "dream school". I am here and I will never regret.

Sorry, I hope what I wrote does not make you feel upset or unhappy. As you are a pride member of Fuqua, I sincerely hope you can talk more about Duke, the job offerings, the intership, the life at Fuqua and what you can take away from Duke and what you can contribute to Duke. For me, I just want to say some words in my heart and I dont want to evulate which school is better than other schools. I believe everyone has their own dream school, right? So, what I mean is to choose the school fit for me, not talk about the ranking in the business world.

If what I wrote make you unhappy, I apologize. But, since you are a current student, I hope you can give me some suggestion. Many appreciated!

我认为中国的考试和录取制度相比美国的是非常落后，应该在最近的几十年向他们学习和靠拢。但是你也需要考虑到中美的国情不同。拿高考来说，我是90年参加高考的，当时我理解那几乎就是中国最公正的制度，让每一个没有背景和无论出身哪里的年轻人都有一次追逐梦想的机会。现在的高考不清楚，不敢妄言。那时确实靠分数，但是当时还有更公正的手段没有呢？文革的时候倒是搞过一阵子推荐上大学，结果呢？一个小山村的年轻人，村里就没几个认识字的人，你非要逼他找两个推荐人写信，这不是歧视吗？相反上次上交弄出的录取丑闻，不就是因为许多有权有势的人推荐吗？如果现在中国就实行美国的录取制度，那么录取工作就完全要靠道德维系了。

其次，美国的录取制度也非常关注成绩和学校，不说是唯成绩和学校论，但是也不是没有排名。

美国的大学本科录取都要写ESSAY或者PS，因为他们靠这个认识你和判断你的成功潜能，但是捉笔代刀的人多了去了，而且即便是将人生和职业计划的非常好，对中国的情况来说，我认为没有可操作性。

最后说个人的职业成就，我不相信美国普通人非常了解中国的经济情况，知道哪些公司受人尊敬和成功。如果老拿500强说事，我认为也不公正。

不知楼主毕业后的打算如何, 个人感觉top5的MBA与其他top10之间的差距不会比top10与top20以后的大, MBA毕竟只是个过程而不是结果, 在你毕业3年或5年以后更多得是看你的工作而不是学校的差别了.

第二, 如果楼主希望留在美国的话, 对于中国人而言, 同美国同学在一条线上竞争是有不少先天的弱点, 这些对你毕业后的影响要胜于top5和top10之间的差异; 而申请top5的MBA很大程度上又有运气的成分, 前几年MBA就业不好造成了申请人数下降,不过现在又有回暖的趋势, 楼主对明年申请又有多少把握呐?

第三, 估计不少出国MBA的多少都想过回国发展, 这就更得看看国情了. 在国内的校友网络, 国人对各校的认知程度都得考虑. 举个例子, kellogg算是标准的top5吧, 但他对印度比中国更有兴趣, 所招收的中,印学生比例快1:20了.而duke, michigan等每年招中国学生有20多, 国内的队伍现在就已经不小了. 这些因素对中国人来说可能更实际些, 我觉得楼主不能一味的只看排名(虽然我今年被kellogg拒了, 有酸葡萄之嫌, 呵呵).

我理解楼主的不甘心, 就像高考时, 去不了清华北大, 就是好像有些遗憾, 其实过来了想想, 去了又如何? 曾经听说有放弃复旦, 就为了来年上北大的, 楼主觉得值吗? 学位不是目的, 更多得是看个人职业上的奋斗. anyway, 一家之言, 楼主姑且看看吧, 祝好运!

Future career fields: Bank, consulting or IB. I plan to work at USA in one or two year, and then come back to China.

dddccc你的决定早就决定了不是吗？我好像看出来了。你已经作了决定重申，你希望得到一些支持，来坚定自己的信念和证明自己的想法是正确的。我没看错吗？

如果我想做一件事情，我妈说不我爸说不我男朋友说不，我朋友说不，但如果我走在马路上突然听到一个路过人说了句do it。管他是和街对面的dog说的还是和他老婆说的，反正我就会蹦蹦跳跳地去作我的想法去了。毕竟有人赞同我了！~that means everything for me .

以下是引用Dole在2005-4-7 1:14:00的发言：

不知道你。

以下是引用Dole在2005-4-7 1:14:00的发言：

如果我想做一件事情，我妈说不我爸说不我男朋友说不，我朋友说不，但如果我走在马路上突然听到一个路过人说了句do it。管他是和街对面的dog说的还是和他老婆说的，反正我就会蹦蹦跳跳地去作我的想法去了。毕竟有人赞同我了

以下是引用ygjm在2005-4-6 13:40:00的发言：

不知楼主毕业后的打算如何, 个人感觉top5的MBA与其他top10之间的差距不会比top10与top20以后的大, MBA毕竟只是个过程而不是结果, 在你毕业3年或5年以后更多得是看你的工作而不是学校的差别了.

感觉错误.只有BIG 3 即H/S/W是无可争议的老大.当然TOP5,M7等等不一而足,但领先效应递减无疑

以下是引用lucsh在2005-4-7 22:12:00的发言：

什么好眼力啊,肯定是个女的说

以下是引用DDDCCC在2005-4-6 5:34:00的发言：

to Duke2006,

If what I wrote make you unhappy, I apologize. But, since you are a current student, I hope you can give me some suggestion. Many appreciated!

To be honest, to see Duke being treated as a "back-up" really makes me a little bit depressed. But what I said to you is sincere. MBA is a huge investment, you must be careful about it.

Expectation determines whether you will regret. Suppose you accept the offer and come to Duke, you will always say to yourself "I should have been in the classroom of Harvard, not here." This will make you unhappy for two years, even for whole life.

I can not deny that HBS is absolutely better than Fuqua. Now, if I were you, I will ask myself "Is Duke good enough for me?" or "Whether only HBS is good enough for me?" if your answer is "No" and "Yes" respectively, then I think you should wait for another year and try to get an offer from your dream school.

But everything has its pros and cons. If you choose to reject Duke and try next year, the cons are as follows:

I don't know how risk averse you are, so it's your own job to make the decision. Don't just follow the suggestions of others. The only decision you made that you will not regret is the one made by yourself (following your heart.)

强烈抗议以上社团成员拿我的性别作为玩笑话题从而使得此帖的根本中心思想脱离正确轨道同时再次声明以头像区别性别是一个完全幼稚且无趣的想法特别是在这个让人郁闷的时刻看到关于有其他有关本人性别的猜想并设计国外某些特殊团体的话题。同理可证那些在所有英特网上注册资料的时候填写完全一致的真实个人资料的人都需要接受一定程度的物理治疗。

以下是引用Dole在2005-4-8 15:44:00的发言：

那些在所有英特网上注册资料的时候填写完全一致的真实个人资料的人都需要接受一定程度的物理治疗。

但是连gender这么basic的资料都存心填反，是不是也有点那个啊？

以下是引用Dole在2005-4-8 15:44:00的发言：

以下是引用nostalgia83在2005-4-8 22:39:00的发言：

hmm... 有james joyce的风范。

James Joyce的特点就是说上一堆没有标点符号的话看上去很吓人，其实仔细分析这些话也没什么逻辑

言归正传：选择学校不光要看排名，也要看学校是否适合自己的风格。如果你是个很喜欢team work的人，Fuqua应该是个不错的选择。推迟一年入学，也的确要考虑机会成本的，而且也不一定过一年就真能去。不过，无论做什么事情，只要自己不后悔，管别人说什么呢。

以下是引用Dole在2005-4-7 1:14:00的发言：

如果我想做一件事情，我妈说不我爸说不我男朋友说不，我朋友说不，但如果我走在马路上突然听到一个路过人说了句do it。管他是和街对面的dog说的还是和他老婆说的，反正我就会蹦蹦跳跳地去作我的想法去了。毕竟有人赞同我了！~that means everything for me

我觉得这个论证不是很有逻辑。虽然论点可能已经被楼主采纳了（支持重申）

打个不知是否恰当的比喻: 如果把女人比做school的化, 当初"查尔斯"面对戴安娜的时候肯定是在想"she is not my dream school", 可等到他真正明白"CARILA IS "的时候, 对戴\卡和他本人都是一件非常非常不公平的事,尤其是戴,结果大家都知道.

其实,人追求的是"心理的平衡", 对目前的目前的状态心理不平衡所以要上MBA, 要换工作,要换GF/BF

Thanks so much, you guys are really warm-hearted. One thing I found no matter where to go, the people and the networking are more important. Just like here, CDers are really nice and like to help others. Duke is also a place where the atmosphere is warm. Maybe another things I need to do is making a full consideration and deadline decision. Thanks you guys again!!!

无意冒犯斯坦福的同仁，据我个人在美国的感受以及和美国同学的交谈，HBS 和 Wharton才是商学院的泰山北斗，Kellogg and Chicago紧随其后。不明白为什么那么多人动辄H/S/W。

学过一篇斯坦福商学院编写的案例，感觉和哈佛的差得太远。

以下是引用DDDCCC在2005-4-1 5:57:00的发言：

Dear XDJM,

排名只是选校的一个方面，还有一个重要的考量因素就是自己的风格与学校的风格是不是相符合．不是每个人都适合哈佛，斯坦佛，沃顿．．．也不是每个人都适合Duke, 要自己亲自去了解每个学校的风格是不是合适自己，和现在的学生聊天．．．总之不要随便听别人说什么就是什么．

另外，招生委员会的人眼睛很尖的，他们从你的申请材料中一眼就能看出你适不适合他们学校．就是经过包装的材料被录取了，以后也会很痛苦．所以，与其以后后悔，还不如现在做好做足自己的功课．