关于OG语法70题解释的疑惑

ptlove4ever

OGP720,70
His studies of ice-polished rocks in his Alpine homeland, far outside the range of present-day glaciers,
led Louis Agassiz in 1837 to propose the concept of an age ( in which great ice sheets had existed in
now currently temperat areas.)
ACD是错误答案，省略
B  in which great ice sheets existed in what are now temperate areas
E when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate
由于concept有关一件发生在过去的事，所以必须用一般过去时，不能用过去完成时。故排除AD
又由于C中定从+there be表达啰嗦，故排除C
但我在BE之间不知如何抉择，OG说，用in which或者when都对，但正确答案是B，因为E中的now是一个副词，必须放在are后边。
提问：为什么副词必须放在动词后边？放在动词前边不是一样可以修饰动词？再说，now是表示时间的副词，为什不能像时间状语一样随便出现在句首或句末都可以？

泾渭不凡

首先说，你的分析有一定道理。副词的修饰可以放到动词前面。例如：
          987-142正确选项：they increasingly are engaged in (通常为are increasingly engaged in)
          987-263 正确选项：never were sold (通常为were never sold)
（以上来自某NN心经，她总结了正确答案中一些语序“诡异”的例子）
所以，你的想法有一定道理。简单说：
I am now a student.
I now am a student.
后面那个句子听上去不顺口，但是，不能认为错，不能无脑排除。

但是你给出的这道题，关键问题在于那个"that"
E when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate
根据句意，这个now应该修饰are，或者说"are temperate".
不能修饰前面那个动词existed，时间上不符合

既然说，now修饰are，那么就必须放到that的后面某处。这也因为，that是必须紧跟着指代对象areas的。

Ron曾经在讲课的时候举了这么个例子：
My friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with that man.
My friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with that man.
这两个句子，that和中间这个插入的modifier位置不同，意思截然不同！
你体会一下，在这两个句子里，as we were graduating from college 分别指的是什么时间？told的时间，还是was in love的时间？

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/31 15:45:50)

Ron的例子：
                （1）第一个例子中as**修饰主句，是指told的时间。
                （2）第二个例子中as**修饰that从句，是was in love的时间。
对吧？baby姐姐~~？？

pt神奇MM~~饭饭昨天正好看到一个知识点~~和你这个题有切合点~~估计pt神奇MM应该知道~~饭饭这里补充这个小小知识点~~利于观众们语法知识点扩充~~~如有不妥之处，还望指正~！

主要是关于in which和when的区分部分的讨论：
        关于一些固定搭配：The year 后that 从句；A time when；A period when； An age in which。
但是见到一个句子大家要注意：It is in an agethat great ice sheets had existed. It would be wrong if there were not 'in'.

babybearmm

首先说，你的分析有一定道理。副词的修饰可以放到动词前面。例如：
          987-142正确选项：they increasingly are engaged in (通常为are increasingly engaged in)
          987-263 正确选项：never were sold (通常为were never sold)
（以上来自某NN心经，她总结了正确答案中一些语序“诡异”的例子）
所以，你的想法有一定道理。简单说：
I am now a student.
I now am a student.
后面那个句子听上去不顺口，但是，不能认为错，不能无脑排除。

但是你给出的这道题，关键问题在于那个"that"
E when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate
根据句意，这个now应该修饰are，或者说"are temperate".
不能修饰前面那个动词existed，时间上不符合

既然说，now修饰are，那么就必须放到that的后面某处。这也因为，that是必须紧跟着指代对象areas的。

Ron曾经在讲课的时候举了这么个例子：
My friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with that man.
My friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with that man.
这两个句子，that和中间这个插入的modifier位置不同，意思截然不同！
你体会一下，在这两个句子里，as we were graduating from college 分别指的是什么时间？told的时间，还是was in love的时间？

OGP720,70
His studies of ice-polished rocks in his Alpine homeland, far outside the range of present-day glaciers,
led Louis Agassiz in 1837 to propose the concept of an age ( in which great ice sheets had existed in
now currently temperat areas.)
ACD是错误答案，省略
B  in which great ice sheets existed in what are now temperate areas
E when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate
由于concept有关一件发生在过去的事，所以必须用一般过去时，不能用过去完成时。故排除AD
又由于C中定从+there be表达啰嗦，故排除C
但我在BE之间不知如何抉择，OG说，用in which或者when都对，但正确答案是B，因为E中的now是一个副词，必须放在are后边。
提问：为什么副词必须放在动词后边？放在动词前边不是一样可以修饰动词？再说，now是表示时间的副词，为什不能像时间状语一样随便出现在句首或句末都可以？

-- by 会员 ptlove4ever (2012/1/31 15:13:56)

ptlove4ever

谢谢，你的解释真的是太完整太具体太精辟太通俗易懂了！
特别是这个例子
“Ron曾经在讲课的时候举了这么个例子：
My friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with that man.
My friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with that man.
这两个句子，that和中间这个插入的modifier位置不同，意思截然不同！
你体会一下，在这两个句子里，as we were graduating from college 分别指的是什么时间？told的时间，还是was in love的时间？”
真是一语惊醒梦中人！原来是因为有了that所以副词的位置才不能随便改动了。
that就犹如一个分界点，that前是从句之外的部分，that后是从句之中的部分。从句之外的now只能修饰从句的先行词area，从句之中的now则可以修饰从句里边的动词。
呃，你觉得我的理解有道理吗？

ptlove4ever

另外关于诡异语序的问题，我也深有感触，OG有时会莫名说哪里的语序是万万不能变的
特别是时间状语，从来不能乱动，往往一动就会造成歧义。
看过OG的解释就觉得其实高水平的SC还是必须靠理解意思，不是靠技术
因为像有歧义的句子这种往往是符合语法规则但不符合文法的，就像我们高中时候常做的找病句，对我们这些外国人来说真的很难。

Suri在奋斗

赞~~！！

首先说，你的分析有一定道理。副词的修饰可以放到动词前面。例如：
          987-142正确选项：they increasingly are engaged in (通常为are increasingly engaged in)
          987-263 正确选项：never were sold (通常为were never sold)
（以上来自某NN心经，她总结了正确答案中一些语序“诡异”的例子）
所以，你的想法有一定道理。简单说：
I am now a student.
I now am a student.
后面那个句子听上去不顺口，但是，不能认为错，不能无脑排除。

但是你给出的这道题，关键问题在于那个"that"
E when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate
根据句意，这个now应该修饰are，或者说"are temperate".
不能修饰areas，否则就是 sth existed in areas now   (existed过去式，过去的东西怎么可能存在于现在的地点呢？）

既然说，now修饰are，那么就必须放到that的后面某处。这也因为，that是必须紧跟着指代对象areas的。

Ron曾经在讲课的时候举了这么个例子：
My friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with that man.
My friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with that man.
这两个句子，that和中间这个插入的modifier位置不同，意思截然不同！
你体会一下，在这两个句子里，as we were graduating from college 分别指的是什么时间？told的时间，还是was in love的时间？

OGP720,70
His studies of ice-polished rocks in his Alpine homeland, far outside the range of present-day glaciers,
led Louis Agassiz in 1837 to propose the concept of an age ( in which great ice sheets had existed in
now currently temperat areas.)
ACD是错误答案，省略
B  in which great ice sheets existed in what are now temperate areas
E when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate
由于concept有关一件发生在过去的事，所以必须用一般过去时，不能用过去完成时。故排除AD
又由于C中定从+there be表达啰嗦，故排除C
但我在BE之间不知如何抉择，OG说，用in which或者when都对，但正确答案是B，因为E中的now是一个副词，必须放在are后边。
提问：为什么副词必须放在动词后边？放在动词前边不是一样可以修饰动词？再说，now是表示时间的副词，为什不能像时间状语一样随便出现在句首或句末都可以？

-- by 会员 ptlove4ever (2012/1/31 15:13:56)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/31 15:45:50)

babybearmm

不好意思，我更正一下
now如果放到that 前面，是作为副词修饰动词existed, 不是修饰areas
My mistake....

我觉得你说得很对！

谢谢，你的解释真的是太完整太具体太精辟太通俗易懂了！
特别是这个例子
“Ron曾经在讲课的时候举了这么个例子：
My friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with that man.
My friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with that man.
这两个句子，that和中间这个插入的modifier位置不同，意思截然不同！
你体会一下，在这两个句子里，as we were graduating from college 分别指的是什么时间？told的时间，还是was in love的时间？”
真是一语惊醒梦中人！原来是因为有了that所以副词的位置才不能随便改动了。
that就犹如一个分界点，that前是从句之外的部分，that后是从句之中的部分。从句之外的now只能修饰从句的先行词area，从句之中的now则可以修饰从句里边的动词。
呃，你觉得我的理解有道理吗？

-- by 会员 ptlove4ever (2012/1/31 16:04:45)

sunnytree0629

很赞的解释

livia2012

不好意思，我更正一下
now如果放到that 前面，是作为副词修饰动词existed, 不是修饰areas
My mistake....

我觉得你说得很对！

谢谢，你的解释真的是太完整太具体太精辟太通俗易懂了！
特别是这个例子
“Ron曾经在讲课的时候举了这么个例子：
My friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with that man.
My friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with that man.
这两个句子，that和中间这个插入的modifier位置不同，意思截然不同！
你体会一下，在这两个句子里，as we were graduating from college 分别指的是什么时间？told的时间，还是was in love的时间？”
真是一语惊醒梦中人！原来是因为有了that所以副词的位置才不能随便改动了。
that就犹如一个分界点，that前是从句之外的部分，that后是从句之中的部分。从句之外的now只能修饰从句的先行词area，从句之中的now则可以修饰从句里边的动词。
呃，你觉得我的理解有道理吗？

-- by 会员 ptlove4ever (2012/1/31 16:04:45)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/31 20:01:23)

SC是怎么修炼到这么出神入化的呢....渴望啊

babybearmm

Ron的例子：
                （1）第一个例子中as**修饰主句，是指told的时间。
                （2）第二个例子中as**修饰that从句，是was in love的时间。
对吧？baby姐姐~~？？

pt神奇MM~~饭饭昨天正好看到一个知识点~~和你这个题有切合点~~估计pt神奇MM应该知道~~饭饭这里补充这个小小知识点~~利于观众们语法知识点扩充~~~如有不妥之处，还望指正~！

主要是关于in which和when的区分部分的讨论：
        关于一些固定搭配：The year 后that 从句；A time when；A period when； An age in which。
但是见到一个句子大家要注意：It is in an age that great ice sheets had existed. It would be wrong if there were not 'in'.

-- by 会员 泾渭不凡 (2012/2/15 10:21:21)

饭饭说的对。
谢谢饭饭的补充！让我想起Ron曾经讲到的一个例子：
Unlike most severance packages, which require workers to stay until the last day scheduled to collect, workers at the automobile company are eligible for its severance package even if they find a new job before they are terminated.
D) their last scheduled day in order to collect, the automobile company's severance package is available to workers.
E) the last day that they are scheduled to collect, the automobile company's severance package is available to workers


the real problem with choice e involves clarity: 'the last day that they are scheduled to collect' means, literally, that the workers collect days, and that they are to wait until the last day that they're allowed to rip off the calendar, place in their backpacks, and take home to the kids. that doesn't make a lot of sense. never forget that you are to read the sentences very literally, like a robot,and that you are not under any conditions to use 'common sense' tojustify improper, inaccurate, or ambiguous wording.

if you say "the last day that they are scheduled to collect", this means that "day" must be a direct object.

this makes no sense, unless the employees are collecting days (which they clearly aren't).


analagy:
the last song that I am scheduled to sings

--
another example:

"the time that we were scheduled to meet"is incorrect. the literal reading of this (which is the only reading you care about, by the way) is that you were scheduled to meet the time itself. (ron:"hi, time!" time: "hi, ron!")

(in case you're wondering, the correct way to say this would be "the time at which we were scheduled to meet", since the preposition "at"must be conserved.)