去Bocconi 还是再申LSE、IC、HEC？多谢多谢~~

Antolenidas

Bocconi 毕业的路过~~~
个人给各位同学说一下自己的感觉，LSE 绝对不是和 Bocconi 在同一个 level 上的，所以如果能进 LSE 就请别考虑 Bocconi 了（我在LSE也混过一段时间 哈）
如果去 Bocconi 读 master 的话，那请大家就只考虑 Master in Finance 和 MiM
Master in Finance GPA 28/30 以上很容易进 London 的 IB （当然28/30 真心不简单 哈）
MiM GPA 28/30 以上进 Consulting 也没问题
其他 master 我觉得就不需要考虑了

angelomaohq

Antolenidas 发表于 2015-11-11 12:34
Bocconi 毕业的路过~~~
个人给各位同学说一下自己的感觉，LSE 绝对不是和 Bocconi 在同一个 level 上的，所 ...

请问international management 和 management 之间差异大么？

Antolenidas

angelomaohq 发表于 2015-11-11 22:24
请问international management 和 management 之间差异大么？

恩 区别挺大
Master in Management 算比较普通的课程，含金量一般
Master in International Management 是 Bocconi 最好的课程之一了，而且课程安排和 Management 区别也挺大的，从 MiM 毕业后去 MBB 的概率比其他任何课程都要高。

ZoeChow04

Antolenidas 发表于 2015-11-11 12:34
Bocconi 毕业的路过~~~
个人给各位同学说一下自己的感觉，LSE 绝对不是和 Bocconi 在同一个 level 上的，所 ...

您好，谢谢您的分享～

我现在正在申请16 fall的master，想请问下，Bocconi不比LSE(然而女神校也很难申请），那HEC和Bocconi相比呢？另外，听说bocconi的msf偏quant，大概是到什么程度呢，相当于financial engineering？还有一个问题是，您提到gpa高的话进London IB希望很大，不过第一年进来就马上申summer，此时基本上还是看的本科的成绩吧，还是说第二年找full-time的时候会用得着？私以为如果目标是ib的话，基本就只能走summer了。

最后一个问题，想请问一下Bocconi在HK和Singapore的reputation如何？之前听说Bocconi会有针对HK的networking，也有学姐最后去BNP Paribas HK office的……

cheesechan

ZoeChow04 发表于 2015-11-17 18:21
您好，谢谢您的分享～

我现在正在申请16 fall的master，想请问下，Bocconi不比LSE(然而女神校也很难申请 ...

1. I will put HEC slightly ahead of Bocconi, though I don't think the difference is significant or meaningful.
The key difference is not in the reputation, but the location. For finance, Paris is way better than Milano.

2. With the "correct" selection of course, I will put her MSF at a level similar to some softer MFE in terms of quantitative level. Similar to those MFE offered by business school, but not as much as those from the sci/engineering faculty in general.
Any MSF that is flexible, and long enough will do so also indeed (and of course the school need to have such courses available).

P.S.
http://www.unibocconi.eu/wps/wcm/connect/Bocconi/SitoPubblico_EN/Navigation+Tree/Quick+Reference+for/Current+Students/Course+profiles/

Since one also spend (or waste) time on some course that are not relevant (like Corporate Valuation, Investment Banking, Compliance, Law and Regulations), it is quite difficult to study as board as a truly MFE / MQF student (given same period of time). Depth is a concern also since the mindset & math level of the class and teacher.
but I will say it is generally enough for a slightly quantitative role, i.e. go to a more quantitative one if you can, but such a one MSF is also acceptable.

3. I don't think Bocconi have much reputation in HK, if there is any. I cannot speak for Signapore though I guess it's similar.
Of course things maybe different if you apply to UniCredit, or still slightly better if one face an European HR in a European bank......but good luck.
Actually, I don't see any point of going to any school in Europena continental for a MS if one plan to work in APAC directly afterwards, unless one really like the country itself. Maybe a couple of university named after a famous city can be a exceptional marginally....

4. "有学姐最后去BNP Paribas HK office" alone doesn't mean anything. Did she enter it by her own connection? since her undergraduate school? or whatever other reason? what's her visa status? which department?
all these kind of questions can be quite individual, and thus when people are talking about placement, they are talking about the overall statistics instead of one or two cases.
Given that the number of Chinese student are very limited, I don't think such kind of empirical analysis is a good idea indeed.

Antolenidas

ZoeChow04 发表于 2015-11-17 18:21
您好，谢谢您的分享～

我现在正在申请16 fall的master，想请问下，Bocconi不比LSE(然而女神校也很难申请 ...

关于选择 HEC 或者 Bocconi，我与楼上的这位看法一样，HEC 比 Bocconi 要稍微好一点，而且你如果是学 Finance 的话，巴黎在这方面的优势比米兰大。
Bocconi 的 MSF 是偏 quant，但是肯定比不上 Financial Engineering，在这一方面你也不需要太担心。
第一年需要申请 Summer，每年学校在9月份会组织 Investment Bank Week，有比较多得机会让学生更好的了解 IB 而且还会邀请几十名学生去伦敦 IB networking （基本上有 Goldman Sachs，Blackrock，Bank of America，JP Morgan 等等），哦 对了 学校会包一切费用，除了机票。
在香港说实话 Bocconi 还是可以的，每年会有一次的机会在香港 networking，基本上都有机会接触到大型 IB，当然规模没有伦敦那个那么大。
新加坡那边其实比较麻烦，因为签证真得很复杂，我知道有些学长在那边发展但是不多，有几位在那边做风投。
最后上面那么同学分析的太理性话了，但是你应该更多的直接接触到学校内部来理解。

cheesechan

Antolenidas 发表于 2015-11-17 23:20
关于选择 HEC 或者 Bocconi，我与楼上的这位看法一样，HEC 比 Bocconi 要稍微好一点，而且你如果是学 Fin ...

1. For the same reason, I will put HSG or even also RSM in front of Bocconi indeed........(though i will put HEC, HSG, Bocconi, SSE into the same tier in terms of reputation)
one wil have the London and the local market (e.g. Paris for HEC, Frankfurt + Zurich for HSG, Amsterdam for RSM) together for these, but not Milan or Stockholm for Bocconi and SSE.

I will put LSE slightly ahead than HEC, but the difference is again not the most important (both will get one to the door of interview if one is good, just like LSE > Warwick for London FO but this is not a key point)
The major difference between LSE and Bocconi is......LSE have a global presence, and is well regarded not only in London, but also Europe, US and APAC, but Bocconi's reputation is rather restricted in terms of location being well-regarded. (this difference is huge, but not necessarily important: imagine someone had fixed the location of interest already.....)


2. How competitive is it for the London IB networking tour?
I had once been some similar kind of networking event, and the profile of the peers are really good. A normal Chinese fresh graduate are not likely to be selected....
Note: beware that one need visa to visit UK as a Chinese national, as UK is not in the Schengen area. It can be a very big problem for interviews with short period of notice.


3. Maybe I am ignorant, but I really had never heard of Bocconi before I did my master application even though I had been studying and working in HK for ages. Only US, UK and maybe also a couple of Canadian school are well regarded here; of course I mean the good school in US/UK, like G5 of UK or similar.


4. Sometime it is really hard to find people who know someone well from the school internally cause it is quite different to know alumni from so many different school
and indeed.....even as an alumni of certain university, I seldom dare to say the school is bla bla bla.......and I bet that the opinon from each of the student of the same school can be very different.
the reason behind is: everyone is an individual, and everyone will have very different experience since the background is so different.
just say, for example, some of classmates are very smart, some are very clear what they want, but some simply don't have any idea about own career plan, some are lazy in picking the local language there, and bla bla bla......which is kind of difficult to just looking at the CV, and obsviously their experience is very different too.

What I can say is, given the tuition fee of Bocconi, 22K EUR for 2 year, I wil choose for going to IC/Warwick or even Edinburgh/Amsterdam instead if I plan to go back directly.
If I really want to stay Europe, I will still put some European school ahead of it for the location (and language also: learn Italian up to working level or not during the study?).
If I really need the schloarship.........well, why I don't just go to school in DE/CH like HSG, or even Mannheim or UZH or HU Berlin instead? I don't need to take to risk of losing the schloarship for the 2nd year.
Bocconi is good, but I don't think it is the best choice for most case. (main reason = Italy is not a place for working in finance). Back, go UK; stay, go France, Germany, Netherlands.


P.S. off topic, outsider point of view of how quantitative Bocconi MSF is:
if one look into the syllbaus, I will say there are enough hints already.
- couple of financial derivatives course are still using John Hull are the main textbook, but with some addition notes and reference as additional, i.e. a bit applied in nature, may not with solid mathematical background
- at the end it is a business school, so there are no specified course in stochastic calculus to go deep into those theortical measure stuffs.
- numerical finance are still using VBA / MATLAB, but not solely depend on scientific language like MATLAB / R, and without touching any C++
- do have course covering those advanced FE topics like IV model, IR model, but each course covers lots of topics, and I will bet that they will simply have a brief overview of them, like what are they and how they look like, but not going depth into the proof of their properties.
- tons of rubbish core course in quant point of view, like Financial Modelling, Corporate Valuation, Financial Analysis and Reporting, Investment Banking and Capital Structure Operations, Company and Financial Markets’ Law and Regulations, Risk Management and Capital Compliance.
what I mean by "correct" course is, Quantitative Finance track, ADVANCED DERIVATIVES, FIXED INCOME (ADVANCED METHODS), APPLIED NUMERICAL FINANCE, ADVANCED TOOLS FOR RISK MANAGEMENT AND ASSET PRICING (CORRELATION AND DEPENDENCE MODELLING), TIME SERIES ANALYSIS OF ECONOMIC-FINANCIAL DATA; which are implied vol model, interest rate model, computational finance, quantitative risk, time series indeed.

# If I am really a quant-wanna-be, I will want to select more things like Stochastic Calculus, Computitatonal Statistics / Data Mining / Meachine Learning, Bayesian Statistics, Quantitative Asset Management, more advanced course in Computational Finance and many many other interesting topic in quantitative finance. Obviously choice of course and relevant researcher are limited in Bocconi as there are no math / OR / CS department to support that.
this comment is not only for Bocconi, but any stand alone business school. MFE is interdisciplinary major, and thus the support from researcher of various departments are important. Of course location is important too (for the cooperation between the industry and the academics. (you can see that the HEC M1 QEF is cooperated with X, and ETH QF is cooperated with UZH for example.....this is the reason behind)
# of course, this type of "half-hard-half-soft" finance program are a good choice for those guy with a finance bachelor, and wanna switch to more quantitative in master. They are unlikely to be admitted to a hard core financial math master, but they stand a good chances for being admitted by these kind of flexible MSF.

Antolenidas

cheesechan 发表于 2015-11-18 00:16
1. For the same reason, I will put HSG or even also RSM in front of Bocconi indeed........(though i ...

关于这位大神提出的看法呢 我来简单的介绍一下吧。
关于 London 的 networking event，的确 competition 是挺大的，但是你如果想要进 IB 我认为你是基本上知道这方面的竞争，其次都是2个月前开始准备的 event，在欧洲签英国的 visa 只需要5个工作日。
其次就像你说的那样，每个人的看法不一样以及经验不同，所以你在香港听到的少那也是你，最近几年香港的那边 event 都还做的比较成功。
至于最后推荐去哪所学校的话，我个人也会推荐如果能去英国的话，那就去英国（当然也需要是比较好的学校），去不了英国可以考虑 HEC，但是我不推荐德国或者荷兰那边的，因为那边的学校知名度在国内也不高，欧美的话知名度肯定也没 Bocconi 高。

ZoeChow04

cheesechan 发表于 2015-11-18 00:16
1. For the same reason, I will put HSG or even also RSM in front of Bocconi indeed........(though i ...

Lots of thanks for your kind patience! You've already provided me with much useful info and insights.

I completely agree with you that "everyone is an individual, and everyone will have very different experience since the background is so different." I've finished the application for HEC Paris, SSE and I am now preparing for LSE and Bocconi. Considering my short-term plan is to find a job abroad, particularly in London (Of course it could be very very difficult but I still wanna have a try, and continental Europe is not taken into consideration due to language and safety issues), I wonder if the location would be such a big concern? (Cuz I guess that it's nearly impossible to find a part-time internship for any of these programs, and the only opportunity is the summer internships in Bulge Brackets or top boutiques, if the school reputation is good enough to help pass the CV screening, all that matters is the person himself. Indeed, visa could be a problem but still possible to prepare in advance.)

Besides, another concern is the length of the program. SSE and Bocconi provide two-year programs, LSE with a 9-month program and HEC is relatively flexible (10-16 months). Is there significant difference between programs with different length? I heard from a student of HEC Paris that some internship opportunities and events (like Spring week) are only available for those two-year programs. That's why I do not have particular preference to UK schools (Oxbridge and LSE are definitely great but also hard to get enrolled), given that my first choice is not to come back directly.

Back to the alternative plan if the internship seeking is not successful. It's true that a continental Euro Business school is much less well-known in China. But I wonder if it is the case that HRs care more on your bachelor degree, unless one attends a master in Harvard and Oxbridge, I mean, those super world-famous universities? i've heard the saying that the bachelor degree weighs more but not sure about it.

Another finding is that HEC Paris provides a double degree with Tsinghua MSF, and Bocconi also has very good exchange partners in China (THU, PKU, FDU, SAIF and top uni in HK). Thus, I am thinking that coming back in second year through DD or exchange may facilitate the job hunting in mainland, given the summer result is not ideal. Have you ever heard these choices? And what do you think about this path?

ZoeChow04

Antolenidas 发表于 2015-11-23 00:30
关于这位大神提出的看法呢 我来简单的介绍一下吧。
关于 London 的 networking event，的确 competition  ...

您好，谢谢您的介绍。

想请问您是bocconi MSF的graduate吗？